2024 ELECTION THREAD
The next presidential race will be here soon! Please see current Bovada odds. Thoughts?
if a maga person attempts Taylor swift assassination I am pretty sure all the left will claim Trump is morally responsible for that and they would have a decent point about it.
btw I called that message an unforced error, if you want I can add that it's a stupid choice, a disgraceful choice, an idiot move.
a detail you are missing though is that I am not condemning criticism per se even if it can generate violence. I am saying you have to own the violence you incite not that's always inherently ba
You are speculating about Democrats acting a certain way if someone attempted an assassination on Taylor swift, then saying Democrats are hypocrites based on a behavior you are imagining them engaging in.
if a maga person attempts Taylor swift assassination I am pretty sure all the left will claim Trump is morally responsible for that and they would have a decent point about it.
btw I called that message an unforced error, if you want I can add that it's a stupid choice, a disgraceful choice, an idiot move.
a detail you are missing though is that I am not condemning criticism per se even if it can generate violence. I am saying you have to own the violence you incite not that's always inherently ba
There is no "responsibility" to deflect. Trump is "responsible" for how he makes people feel about him, including wanting to kill him, not the people reporting what he says and does. Now, if people were falsely reporting and making up things he supposedly said and did, that would change the calculus. But I don't think even you're arguing that.
he is far less authoritarian than most politicians in history. he used power far less than most, had to play golf and meet people to be praised and get personal benefits out of the presidency.
it's really crazy to think you believe Trump is authoritarian. Vance is, and he gives all the impressions he would use power a lot to limit freedoms he dislikes.
but Trump already governed 4 years, which freedoms of citizens did he actually curtail? specific examples pls, I can list many by most other presidents, both through EO and by legislation they sponsored.
I'm a lifelong Republican voter, but Trump's refusal to do anything about Critical Race Theory in our schools is disqualifying. Have no choice but to cast my vote for Harris, unfortunately.
There is no "responsibility" to deflect. Trump is "responsible" for how he makes people feel about him, including wanting to kill him, not the people reporting what he says and does. Now, if people were falsely reporting and making up things he supposedly said and did, that would change the calculus. But I don't think even you're arguing that.
sure there is no democrat controlled media narrative, there never has been, media is impartial in the USA, the perception of Trump people have is entirely linked to what he says and does.
sure there is no democrat controlled media narrative, there never has been, media is impartial in the USA, the perception of Trump people have is entirely linked to what he says and does.
I asked what you believe was reported that was untrue and may have led to the assassination attempt. If your claim is simply that most normal, right-thinking people, including most people who work for reputable media outlets, rightfully hate Trump and his ilk with a passion, you won't get much argument from me there.
this has more to do with the weakness of our government and soft stances of the democrats
it's the straw that broke the camels back for me in ever having any faith in our government to function properly nor for either party to ever govern
just want to add to this that the democrats went after al franken harder than they ever went after trump
how about right wing, besides his lolcow insurrection attempt, what policies did he push through that were authoritarian? he was easily the least effective executive we've ever haad
Besides attempting to stay in power as an unelected dictator, what did Trump ever do that was authoritarian? I dunno man, you **** one goat...
Or, more seriously, apart from calling the free press "the enemy of the people" whenever they criticise him, calling for prosecutions of journalists and political opponents, and probably a zillion other things I can think of?
This "hurr durr what did Trump ever do that was authoritarian?" bullshit is getting old. Google it.
You are speculating about Democrats acting a certain way if someone attempted an assassination on Taylor swift, then saying Democrats are hypocrites based on a behavior you are imagining them engaging in.
Hypothetical hypocrisy arguments are the absolute worst.
Edit: I take it back. We have now moved on to "you know I'm right" argument, which I guess is worse than the hypothetical hypocrisy argument.
You are smart and decent and with a moral compass, you will understand what i am talking about when the exact same strategy will keep being used after Trump, that's when you will realize it's not about Trump. You got a hint for 3-4 months when desantis had a chance to maybe with republican primaries. Takes about him being "worse than Hitler" and ofc "worse than Trump" started immediatly.
In Italy supposedly it was about Berlusconi being a unique threat to democracy and so on, which justified the
A stopped clock is right twice a day. The right wing media calls everyone a marxist and they were wrong until it was actually a democratic socialist named Bernie Sanders. We can say that the media was right about Trump while recognizing that they also exaggerate on certain issues.
The problem is that on the other side, the insanity of the right really is a threat to democracy and Trump’s 2016 campaign really did seek support from white supremacists, and we need a way of talking about that without people like you trying to pretend it’s a purely partisan thing.
Do you think someone like Sam Harris who has been the victim of this very same media cycle you are talking about is lying when he talks about his concerns of American democracy and the unique threat of Trump? Of course the media sensationalism can be criticized but we need proportionate criticism.
Under the Dominion lawsuit we found out that right-wing news knowingly pushed fake news about Dominion and the election. This sort of political cult does not spring up overnight, it was built over many years. And now Trump is saying whatever he can to keep power, including pushing moderate positions he never did before that he knows cannot be passed under Republicans. I truly believe he thinks he needs to win to avoid accountability for his crimes.
he is far less authoritarian than most politicians in history. he used power far less than most, had to play golf and meet people to be praised and get personal benefits out of the presidency.
it's really crazy to think you believe Trump is authoritarian. Vance is, and he gives all the impressions he would use power a lot to limit freedoms he dislikes.
but Trump already governed 4 years, which freedoms of citizens did he actually curtail? specific examples pls, I can list many by most other presid
He wants to be emperor god king, and would be if he could. He has expressed numerous times his desire to use the judicial system to suppress criticism of him personally and political opposition. He incited a ****ing insurrection to stay in power. He idolises dictators, or "strongmen" as he calls them.
That is ****ing authoritarian by any stretch of the imagination. You are just arguing that he is too incompetent to achieve it.
Besides attempting to stay in power as an unelected dictator, what did Trump ever do that was authoritarian? I dunno man, you **** one goat...
Or, more seriously, apart from calling the free press "the enemy of the people" whenever they criticise him, calling for prosecutions of journalists and political opponents, and probably a zillion other things I can think of?
This "hurr durr what did Trump ever do that was authoritarian?" bullshit is getting old. Google it.
i was talking about all his work as president before he lost re-election
what he did afterwards was absolutely unforgivable
just call him a dictator then - that's a bad enough label which is actually accurate unlike the label of fascist
i do appreciate your reference though
One party gins up racist pogroms and tries to upend American democracy, the other was mean to Al Franker, guess I have no choice but to vote for Jill Stein, a candidate for serious people.
If 16 years ago I told you a president would come along who would lie about literally every last thing that comes from his mouth, who has a running mate who admitted on television he has and will continue to fabricate stories even as the state he is senator of is begging him to stop ****ing their lives up by lying. If I told you you would start actually paying attention to literally Secretary of State elections cuz a president will actually try to coerce them into invalidating the election. If I told you a president would actually coax his cultists into storming the capital, that people would die, and that an entire political spectrum would tell you you’re blowing things out or proportion by calling that what it was. If I told you the new normal would be ‘never concede, just insist to your followers it was stolen, and assume no responsibility when violence is done cuz of it’
You would sit there telling me I’m insane and have bush derangement syndrome
i was talking about all his work as president before he lost re-election
what he did afterwards was absolutely unforgivable
just call him a dictator then - that's a bad enough label which is actually accurate unlike the label of fascist
i do appreciate your reference though
His stated desire to use the justice system to prosecute critics and political opponents and calling them "the enemy of the people" pre-dates his losing the election.
Do you know what right wing dictators are usually called? I'll give you a clue, you've heard of a couple of prominent ones from back in the 1930s-1940s.
If 16 years ago I told you a president would come along who would lie about literally every last thing that comes from his mouth, who has a running mate who admitted on television he has and will continue to fabricate stories even as the state he is senator of is begging him to stop ****ing their lives up by lying. If I told you you would start actually paying attention to literally Secretary of State elections cuz a president will actually try to coerce them into invalidating the election. If I
if I told you the fully bipartisan Patriot Act and the fully bipartisan Iraq war were a lot worse than all the above combined you would immediately deny it but deep inside you know it could be actually true.
if I told you the fully bipartisan Patriot Act and the fully bipartisan Iraq war were a lot worse than all the above combined you would immediately deny it but deep inside you know it could be actually true.
Yea, I'm sure everyone agrees that attempting to overturn a US election by force is worse than passing legislation that was orderly struck down by the courts and worse than an another ill-advised war that was supported by duly-elected politicians.
His stated desire to use the justice system to prosecute critics and political opponents and calling them "the enemy of the people" pre-dates his losing the election.
Do you know what right wing dictators are usually called? I'll give you a clue, you've heard of a couple of prominent ones from back in the 1930s-1940s.
why don't we call him a Saddamist?
did you watch the video?
Do you think fascism is named after someone called "Fash"?
No, honestly, wtf are you talking about? It'd be perfectly fine to call Saddam a fascist, and I'm sure he's been called it many times before.
it's actually a thing
it's actually a thing
What's your point?
if I told you the fully bipartisan Patriot Act and the fully bipartisan Iraq war were a lot worse than all the above combined you would immediately deny it but deep inside you know it could be actually true.
Two things can be true at the same time, which is that those two policies are really bad and also they are not a threat to America, America’s institutions, or America’s democracy.
Also with the Patriot act it’s funny because in all honesty nothing bad ever really came of it, at least nothing that its main critics said would happen. But it did seem like a scary expansion of government powers at the time, even though policing powers in the US are rather broad so long as they don’t infringe on civil liberties. You even have crackpot civil libertarians trying to argue that police body cams are a dangerous infringement on civil liberties as well through surveillance, which I don’t understand.
If it was passed today I would be opposed to it, but it actually realistically didn’t turn out as bad as people thought it would.
