2024 ELECTION THREAD
The next presidential race will be here soon! Please see current Bovada odds. Thoughts?
Luciom, why is it that former Vice President Pence isn’t endorsing Trump, and isn’t going to vote for him? Do you think it might have anything to do with Trump’s attempt to insight violence against him or is he just falling for Demonrat narratives?
My hunch is that Pence doesn't support Trump very much because Trump wanted Pence hanged yes.
Also Pence pretended Trump gave a **** to christian conservatism but he knows pretty well by now he doesn't (as, you know, he isn't fascist). Maybe he knew all along but the possibility of being VP made hike close both eyes. understandably.
But like, Pence is actually way more fascist than Trump is, he would be glad to legislate morality rules and enforce them with a "sin police".
Pence is the republican who wants a white nationalist, christian theocracy. Pence is the actual demon you guys see on the other side.
I don’t take anything as true, I read and assess accordingly. My job requires me to interact with a lot of right leaning clients with financial behaviors based on what they absorb so I actually do read Fox News regularly, watch Fox News after the debate/major political events, WSJ, etc
but ya, something something msnbc sure why not
Was there a fake elector scheme in place? And did some of those people ALREADY get convicted?
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/27/us/po...
Did Trump ask Georgia SOS, Raffesnberger to "find him 11000 votes?"
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/03/us/po...
Did Trump ask Pence to reject the vote, and not certify the election?
https://www.factcheck.org/2023/08/what-t...
Did Trump wait hours to do anything about the "violent mob" / insurrectionist?
https://www.cnn.com/2022/07/20/politics/...
We could go on here, but do you dispute any of the above, and if so be VERY specific about what and why.
you know the riots in Gaza to get the aid?
have you checked what happened like twice, and how magically there are no more aid riots?
Militaries have only very minimal duty to other country’s civilians. I wonder if they would act the same during an Israeli riot inside of the Israeli capital?
My hunch is that Pence doesn't support Trump very much because Trump wanted Pence hanged yes.
Also Pence pretended Trump gave a **** to christian conservatism but he knows pretty well by now he doesn't (as, you know, he isn't fascist). Maybe he knew all along but the possibility of being VP made hike close both eyes. understandably.
But like, Pence is actually way more fascist than Trump is, he would be glad to legislate morality rules and enforce them with a "sin police".
Pence is the republican w
Funny because we had an actual test of that play out before our very eyes and Pence was on the side of Democracy and the peaceful transfer of power. Yes I agree Pence is a bad dude and maybe worse than Trump policy wise, but also Trump chose the guy you call more evil than him as VP so….
This isn't MSNBC:
On Fox News the following night, Aug. 2, former Vice President Mike Pence called that claim “completely false.” Pence said Trump and his “gaggle of crackpot lawyers” asked him “to literally reject votes.”
“I think it’s important that the American people know what happened in the days before January 6,” Pence said. “President Trump demanded that I use my authority as vice president presiding over the count of the Electoral College to essentially overturn the election by returning or literally rejecting votes. I had no authority to do that.”
For those who might doubt him, Pence urged them to “read the indictment.”
Supporting these people is supporting literally fascism, because they want nothing to do w/ democracy anymore. Democracy is the cornerstone of American politics. It's the very thing that has allowed America to excel in the world. Doing away w/ democracy is ANTI-AMERICAN. So you can call anyone supporting these people, anti-American fascist, and traitors to our constitution.
You can't dance around it.
You guys only trust sources that you know play for your team, and no one else, and the same is true for us.
you have the dominion settlement, we have the mostly peaceful comment with burning buildings behind (and a lot more stuff).
when media plays for a team, this is what happens.
But the media that play against trump are like 95% of all media’s and even Fox News go against trump many time ?
So in other words you rather believes 5% of what media’s tell you .
You rather believes 1% of science for climate changes .
You rather believes the 1-5% of what medical science says about vaccines and COVID.
Do you see a pattern here of what poor reliability of information you seem to believe in ?
You might be right on 1 subject but when you are in the camp of the 5% of every subjects , seem you have more the conspiracies syndromes then anything else ?
Seem you are the one rejecting of 95% of everything just because u don’t agree m, believe or like what you hear .
Before accusing us, look at the mirror a bit ?
If all you say and believe are so true and easily proven to be right .
Why the support about every newspaper, science , etc u believe are so poor and non existent ?
Was there a fake elector scheme in place? And did some of those people ALREADY get convicted?
Did Trump ask Georgia SOS, Raffesnberger to "find him 11000 votes?"
Did Trump wait hours to do anything about the "violent mob" / insurrectionist?
We cou
there was certainly an alternative slate of elector scheme enacted in various states.
alternative, not "fake". until certified there is no "true" slate.
some people violated local state laws about that and pleaded guilty of their mistakes yes.
but the general idea that in most states legislatures could have voted a different slate (if presented appropriately) was true, and a long shot (legal) attempt to get the EC votes of a state that voted differently.
some trump people are idiots and don't do things properly and sometimes that's criminal and they pay the price.
the Georgia SoS call happened I believe yes. Find me 11k votes when asking to insist on recounts and disqualification of illegal votes was pressure yes. illegal pressure? a demand for illegal action? that's for a court to determine. until they do it's just what I would expect in politics: Yoh are my party member you should do anything legal in your power to help me win, that's why parties exist.
trump never told the Jan 6 crowd to be violent so I don't understand point 3.
there was certainly an alternative slate of elector scheme enacted in various states.
alternative, not "fake". until certified there is no "true" slate.
some people violated local state laws about that and pleaded guilty of their mistakes yes.
but the general idea that in most states legislatures could have voted a different slate (if presented appropriately) was true, and a long shot (legal) attempt to get the EC votes of a state that voted differently.
some trump people are idiots and don't do thi
He didn't dissuade them. Let's put it that way. 😀
And no, this isn't normal to ask a SOS to find votes, or throw votes away. That's why he recorded the call. You're being blatantly dishonest, and everyone in here see's right through it.
Did Trump ask Pence to reject the vote, and not certify the election?
And no Luciom, that's not "normal" and not something both sides do. lol
Right to the false equivalencies, though. I don't blame you. There's no other strategy if you want to avoid the truth at this point.
My hunch is that Pence doesn't support Trump very much because Trump wanted Pence hanged yes.
Also Pence pretended Trump gave a **** to christian conservatism but he knows pretty well by now he doesn't (as, you know, he isn't fascist). Maybe he knew all along but the possibility of being VP made hike close both eyes. understandably.
But like, Pence is actually way more fascist than Trump is, he would be glad to legislate morality rules and enforce them with a "sin police".
Pence is the republican w
????
I mean jfc …..
Wanting old partners dead is a sign of a democratic president ?
there was certainly an alternative slate of elector scheme enacted in various states.
alternative, not "fake". until certified there is no "true" slate.
some people violated local state laws about that and pleaded guilty of their mistakes yes.
but the general idea that in most states legislatures could have voted a different slate (if presented appropriately) was true, and a long shot (legal) attempt to get the EC votes of a state that voted differently.
some trump people are idiots and don't do thi
In Jesus words, “fight like hell” is synonymous too “turn the other cheek”.
My hunch is that Pence doesn't support Trump very much because Trump wanted Pence hanged yes.
Also Pence pretended Trump gave a **** to christian conservatism but he knows pretty well by now he doesn't (as, you know, he isn't fascist). Maybe he knew all along but the possibility of being VP made hike close both eyes. understandably.
But like, Pence is actually way more fascist than Trump is, he would be glad to legislate morality rules and enforce them with a "sin police".
Pence is the republican w
Lol
The colonel is excelling himself defending us from fascism today.
Do you believe a democracy can become a dictatorship in a heart beat or only through many steps over a period of time , like actual years ?
If u think that SC decision about full presidential immunity isn’t a step favouring this , I don’t know what to tell you .
He put his pawns first (sc justices) , then try get immunity from them , and we moving forward more and more .
did you even watch the video?
You guys only trust sources that you know play for your team, and no one else, and the same is true for us.
you have the dominion settlement, we have the mostly peaceful comment with burning buildings behind (and a lot more stuff).
when media plays for a team, this is what happens.
For the purpose of establishing a baseline, do you believe that any of the following statements are untrue:
1. Trump lost the election.
2. There was never any evidence of fraud on a scale that could have affected the outcome of the election.
3. Despite a lack of evidence, Trump continued for months to try and convince the public that the election was rigged. These efforts included making factual assertions that his lawyers were unwilling to stand behind in court
4. Trump attempted to use the considerable power of the presidency to convince various state officials and the Vice President to act unlawfully for his personal political benefit.
5. Trump did 3 and 4 at levels that have no precedent in modern U S. political history.
6. Trump did 3 and 4 with no regard for the consequences of undermining public confidence in election results.
He didn't dissuade them. Let's put it that way. 😀
And no, this isn't normal to ask a SOS to find votes, or throw votes away. That's why he recorded the call. You're being blatantly dishonest, and everyone in here see's right through it.
Did Trump ask Pence to reject the vote, and not certify the election?
yes I think he asked Pence to use his VP powers to stop the certification/substitute slates.
the issue was so unclear congress fixed it later to clarify the actual role of the VP is just cerimoniale (which means that when trump attempted it, it wasn't obvious that was the case).
trump attempt to overturn the election on technicalities made the republic stronger in that case.
imagine someone actually smart, with actual allies in all key positions, attempting the same. thanks to trump's clumsy attempt that's fixed.
For the purpose of establishing a baseline, do you believe that any of the following statements are untrue:
1. Trump lost the election.
2. There was never any evidence of fraud on a scale that could have affected the outcome of the election.
3. Despite a lack of evidence, Trump continued for months to try and convince the public that the election was rigged. These efforts included making factual assertions that his lawyers were unwilling to stand behind in court
4. Trump attempted to use the
1) yes in 2020. that's especially true because even if you want to stretch the claims they make to the maximum, he could at most flip one state which wouldn't be enough. so it's a very solid yes.
2) yes otherwise I wouldn't confidently claim 1)
3) yes we agreed Giuliani among others made a mockery of the law in his futile attempts to litigate some of that
4) no I am not so sure he attempted to have them act unlawfully. I actually believe many states give (maybe because of "gentlemen agreement" beliefs) insane powers to specific key people, or legislatures, to actually overturn the result of the populat vote in presidential elections. that is true even if those powers were never used to overturn the results.
5) yes , even if 4) isn't necessarily a set of unlawful requests, certainly no one before him attempted to use those provisions like he did
6) yes, to the point he actually wants to instill in the public the idea that the party of immigration never believed in democratic norms. remember the main idea is democrats steal by getting illegals to vote. they import illegal voters otherwise they couldn't win.
even if a kernel of truth exists in that (a legal one: democrats want to naturalize immigrants to gain votes; and a technical one: illegals count for the census and house seats, so states that take in many of them have more power), Trump attempt is to delegitimize immigrationists democratically.
if you are pro immigration in that model you want to destroy natives using immigrants to pass policies that damage natives , illegally.
that's trump nativist narrative. it's wrong today as it was when protestants decried a catholic invasion by Irish and Italian was attempted to overthrow america.
not a new dynamic in American politics, but a really toxic one.
criticizing this appropriately is a moral imperative. I do regularly when I talk with maga (even here, I had to defend skilled immigration benefits with some nativist).
