2024 ELECTION THREAD
The next presidential race will be here soon! Please see current Bovada odds. Thoughts?
i would definitely be there, cash in hand
idk about "far right" but Mahr has been rightwing for decades.
Bill Maher isn’t that bad. He doesn’t let his dislike of progressives and socialists get in the way of the real problem, which is Trump and Maga. If anything he gives far leftists way more of a platform than they deserve.
I deeply dislike him, regardless of his views.
I think pols, econ, law etc are serious subjects you have to learn about. I guess less than half of people who comment on these things professionally could get basic questions like what the difference between conservative and RW is.
That's bad enough. But, a bunch of actors and comedians discussing that stuff is even worse.
Like, let's have a show where Carrottop gives out medical advice and then brings on a bunch of celebs to debate issues in biology.
Probably one of the oldest surviving forms of comedy is satire, wherein people use the medium of comedy/humor to criticize current events/politics.
lol maher being rightwing. he's an old man who hasn't updated on trans issues and occasionally questions the dem party line on things like biden being fit to serve a 2nd term or censorship (which was a core leftist position 20 years ago)
he's a smug egotist to be sure... deeply unfunny for a self-proclaimed "comedian" and its wild he employs like 15 writers for his show, which is so far from comedy its sad. but rightwing is not an accurate descriptor.
lol maher being rightwing. he's an old man who hasn't updated on trans issues and occasionally questions the dem party line on things like biden being fit to serve a 2nd term or censorship (which was a core leftist position 20 years ago)
he's a smug egotist to be sure... deeply unfunny for a self-proclaimed "comedian" and its wild he employs like 15 writers for his show, which is so far from comedy its sad. but rightwing is not an accurate descriptor.
Remember, some of the people calling Maher right-wing think that the dems are right-wing too. The political compass quiz and its consequences have been a disaster for political discourse.
fair enough. i realize i don't know what constitutes right/left wing anymore
fun fact: maher has such a fragile ego his staff boots anyone who boos/groans during a show and doesn't allow them back
Probably one of the oldest surviving forms of comedy is satire, wherein people use the medium of comedy/humor to criticize current events/politics.
I haven't seen his show in a very long time. It used to be a little satire, and a lot of genuine commentary, maybe with a note of humor and then Rosie O'Donnell would debate gun control with Rob Schneider or something.
Pretty sure calling a dude who's voted straight dem for decades a right winger is just an idiotic attempt to shift the overton window to construct everything as right wing. That **** aint new.
Remember, some of the people calling Maher right-wing think that the dems are right-wing too. The political compass quiz and its consequences have been a disaster for political discourse.
Dems are RW on a number of issues, at least in comparison to their counterparts in other countries and American politicians of the past.
For example, wanting to be the only developed country without UHC is an outlier position. It is a position to the right of everyone else.
The short version is R is more hierarchy and L is more equality. Everyone having HC is more equal. So opposing that is a RW position
I haven't seen his show in a very long time. It used to be a little satire, and a lot of genuine commentary, maybe with a note of humor and then Rosie O'Donnell would debate gun control with Rob Schneider or something.
The point wasn't that his show is satire, my point is that comedians making political commentary is pretty in line with how comedy has always historically been used. Maybe the big difference is that some comedians like to escape the responsibility that they have as comedians and media figures by saying stuff like "well I'm just a stupid comedian, what do I know?" while having millions of people watching them. I'm thinking people like Joe Rogan or Jimmy Dore. Once you enter into the commentary space, we shouldn't allow people to be like "well I'm just some idiot what do I know?".
Dems are RW on a number of issues, at least in comparison to their counterparts in other countries and American politicians of the past.
For example, wanting to be the only developed country without UHC is an outlier position. It is a position to the right of everyone else.
The short version is R is more hierarchy and L is more equality. Everyone having HC is more equal. So opposing that is a RW position
The Democrats don't oppose universal healthcare. People conflate being against a medicare for all style system with being against universal healthcare. Plenty of countries don't have an NHS or Medicare for All style system but still have universal healthcare. Biden ran on the public option and pretty much every Democrat has a preferred plan for universal healthcare.
The issue that a lot of people don't like to talk about is twofold. First of all, most jobs nowadays give you health insurance as a benefit, so most working adults have absolutely no problem getting healthcare. Then, there are people that are super poor or old and they also get medicare or medicaid. Then there are veterans who have access to the VA. Then there are state programs for healthcare like medical for instance, there are public hospitals, free clinics, etc. Worst comes to worst, if you don't have health insurance hospitals are obliged to treat you in the ER and you incur medical debt, which can be discharged through hospital programs to help out people that don't have the money for treatment in many cases. Even if you are diagnosed with cancer, you can still get health insurance through ACA marketplaces.
And look, part of the problem is that the Democratic party might be pretty left, I mean they are a major party that has a Democratic Socialist caucus, but the system itself has so many separated powers that it's hard for Democrats to really do the same things that other countries with a parliamentary system can do. Furthermore, they are subdivided by states that have a good amount of power over what they're able to do. Furthermore we have to be careful with looking at Dems as one unified idea throughout time, because Clinton Democrats were more to the right than modern Dems. Even Biden who was considered a more centrist Dem throughout his career campaigned on a pretty progressive platform and got through some pretty decent policies.
I'm sure Luciom will now come in with some rant about how Europe is Marxist or whatever but yeah
The point wasn't that his show is satire, my point is that comedians making political commentary is pretty in line with how comedy has always historically been used. Maybe the big difference is that some comedians like to escape the responsibility that they have as comedians and media figures by saying stuff like "well I'm just a stupid comedian, what do I know?" while having millions of people watching them. I'm thinking people like Joe Rogan or Jimmy Dore. Once you enter into the commentary sp
I am not sure why you call that a rant, you haven't addresses any of the claims.
But take Dem controlled states, states where Dem own politics completely.
There are some insane things like Hawaii, perma-dem controlled by a trifecta (state wise) with less than 20 cent of gasoline state tax per gallon.
How do you square that with democrats being even comparable to rightwing European parties which, when they manage, attempt to decrease taxes on gasoline 5 cent per liter from the 80 we are at in Italy and elsewhere?
20c per gallon doesn't even necessarily pay for road maintenance itself (which was the original purpose of the tax), there is no pigouvian adjustment for pollution (the actual real air pollution, relevant in urban settings), nevermind for carbon emissions.
Why don't Dem controlled state introduce a full universal statewide coverage for healthcare?
The right in Europe doesn't even attempt to remove it!
HOW can you defend democrats asking for Medicare for all and huge pigouvian taxes at the federal level when in the places they control in full with no opposition they don't pass the same even if they could?
Do you realize that California itself with the highest gasoline state taxes, has them at like 1/3-1/4 the continental Europe level?
California pays k12 teachers close to 100k/year, and they can't cover the totality of residents with healthcare?
Maybe, just maybe, they don't want to? Which means they lie 24/7 at the federal level, while they prove day in and day out their preferences are different?
I don’t think Maher is right wing, I just think he’s smug, deeply unfunny and not at all entertaining
If I have understood him correctly he is not disputing anthropogenic climate change, but he has some plausible sounding arguments that the impact of it is nowhere near as disastrous as we've been led to believe (in addition, he doesn't care, but that's whatever). So, I am finding reading the responses from knowledgeable posters to that particular line very informative.
There is little need to over-analyze his takes.
He realizes that arguing against climate change is a debate where he might end up looking ignorant, so he instead focuses on arguing that it is an irrelevant debate and that environmentalism is merely political rhetoric. It is one of the oldest political tricks in the book ("You don't really care about X, you just want the votes").
Unfortunately, there is half-truth to what he says. In Europe, the political left is very good at spouting environmentalist rhetoric, only to do the absolute minimum when they gain power. The European left has strong ties to worker movements and unions, and these groups tend to really dislike environmentalism because it often requires regulation that will hurt the job market short-term. They rather perfectly mirror the right, who end up doing the same thing on behalf of businesses and business owners.
Where he is wrong is to implicitly claim this is what environmentalism is. It is not, which is also why we're seeing actual environmentalist parties crop up across Europe. These parties are usually very flexible as far as the political axis go - they'll enter most political blocs in exchange for environmental concessions.
In Europe they do the minimum what the ****?
Tame you aren't bad faith like this usually, please address the 3 euro per liter gasoline tax every household in Italy has been paying for decades jfc, how is that not already a lot more than enough to offset all fossil fuel externalities?
Btw I am also claiming that actual "good faith" extreme environmentalism is genocidal, criminal, and should be outlawed.
People who want ONLY renewables and nuclear doesn't count, plenty of them in Europe, are criminals. Are enemies of the people, are a threat worse than the worst racist could ever be
After legislation is passed to criminalize their actions, and due time is given for them to decide whether they want to be criminals or not, you start by dissolving their associations as criminal ones and arresting their leaders and biggest donors.
Then you move from there depending on whether they keep existing underground or not, and doing what.
Same as you would deal with neo Nazis with plans to gas the Jews, except there are far many more green fanatics and they are worse for societies with almost no Jews (like Italy) than neonazis (which are already bad enough to justify criminalization and state force used against them) could ever be.
You treat then as you would treat active cells of Al Qaeda and the like (after passing legislation for that of course).
