Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
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i was badly misled by mainstream media about hezbollah's capabilities. if i was conspiratorial minded i'd say it was a mossad psyop
Never would have expected Hamas to outperform Hezbollah. I guess it goes to show that terrorist cells have a lot of advantages over terrorist cells/weak conventional mix. It could also be Hezbollah's complete lack of sincerity. A lot of millionaires being made in Lebanon right now.
Of course this is likely to change since it seems like Israel insists on invading. Even if the leadership is dead, there's still tens of thousands of grunts left.
Israel might actually bankrupt itself if it invades Lebanon. Bibi will be at a season-high in popularity this week in Israel. I tend to think he won't risk it with a ground invasion, but he also might be too high on his own supply right now.
Interesting question is if he wanted this to happen while he's away or he's furious it did. All he wants is credit and he's not here to dance on TV.
He's flying back now. I'm sure we'll be seeing a video of him in front of a large map soon.
I'd be shocked if Hassan was actually killed but If he was then it certainly puts a cap in the idea that Hez and Hamas were the two most idiotic organizations of our lifetime.
Israel strongly hinted at what they were going to do, then literally announced what they were going to do, told people to leave, and you just decide to hang out in your quarters as the #1 man? You should be somewhere in Tehran , celebrating the fact that you just generated the worst possible outcome for a sickening amount of people for possibly a generation.
'Optimism that a three-week ceasefire could be reached between Hezbollah and Israel appeared to recede as Benjamin Netanyahu issued a pair of contradictory statements on the proposal within hours of each other.'
sounds like israel got some nice intel between statements one and two
Israel strongly hinted at what they were going to do, then literally announced what they were going to do, told people to leave, and you just decide to hang out in your quarters as the #1 man? You should be somewhere in Tehran , celebrating the fact that you just generated the worst possible outcome for a sickening amount of people for possibly a generation.
I don't think this there was a warning. IDF decided there was a good chance that Nasrallah was there and bombed it. For the most part IDF has been warning for areas where they suspect stockpiles of weapons.
I don't think this there was a warning. IDF decided there was a good chance that Nasrallah was there and bombed it. For the most part IDF has been warning for areas where they suspect stockpiles of weapons.
Hezbollah is a state within a state whose main stronghold is a section of Beirut in the south called Dahieh. Israel definitely didn't give any warning of this attack. They got intelligence there was a big meeting and they acted on it.
However, Israel has already targeted Dahieh several times in the last 11 months to assassinate various Hezbollah, Hamas and IRI commanders; and given how the last 10 days have gone if you are not a member or family member of Hezbollah, you should have been as far away from that area as possible.
There are somewhere between 450-700k people in Dahiya. It is the most densely populated area in Beirut (and obv entire Lebanon). Blaming people for not evacuating their homes is never a good look.
It’s also the birthplace of the Israel’s infamous
This is IDF issuing evacuation demands for a part of Dahiyeh. It occurred 4 hours ago. I do not think there was a similar evacuation demand issued prior to the strike on Nasrillah which was ignored by Hezbollah.
I don't think this there was a warning. IDF decided there was a good chance that Nasrallah was there and bombed it. For the most part IDF has been warning for areas where they suspect stockpiles of weapons.
There obv wasn't a warning for him. The particular location in question, if he was even there wasn't a smart place to be at the very least. He should have known better. But I don't think he was there.
Israel strongly hinted at what they were going to do, then literally announced what they were going to do, told people to leave, and you just decide to hang out in your quarters as the #1 man?
I misread this as referring to one of the evacuation orders.
I don't think there was a "smart" place to be anymore.
Israel is basically just hoping he was there.
Israel checking if Nasrallah was at Hezbollah’s Beirut HQ at time of strike
Israel is checking if Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah was at the terror group’s headquarters in Beirut when it was struck by the Israeli Air Force a short while ago, sources tell Israeli media.
The IDF said that it struck Hezbollah’s central headquarters built under civilian buildings in the Dahiyeh suburb of Beirut, but did not say if Nasrallah was the target
F16s busted the place up. It should be clearly understood that hiding in a bunker wont keep you safe in 2024.
Their entire hierarchy has been decimated, their organization obviously infiltrated, and communications compromised. As Bluegrass says, there probably wasn't a lot of great moves left for Hezbollah (short of going back in time and agreeing to stop attacking Israel and retreat behind the Litani River).
Their entire hierarchy has been decimated, their organization obviously infiltrated, and communications compromised. As Bluegrass says, there probably wasn't a lot of great moves left for Hezbollah (short of going back in time and agreeing to stop attacking Israel and retreat behind the Litani River).
We are talking about a guy who has stayed out of the public for a very long time out of fears of assassination. has close ties to Iran, is 64 years old, but was just going down with the ship in his barracks? Maybe, but I think the dude is alive and doing just fine.
'Optimism that a three-week ceasefire could be reached between Hezbollah and Israel appeared to recede as Benjamin Netanyahu issued a pair of contradictory statements on the proposal within hours of each other.'
sounds like israel got some nice intel between statements one and two
Israel has shown repeatedly the last 11 months that the US announcing they are close to a ceasefire (which in itself doesn't seem to mean much of anything) does not mean they are going to let up or let a tactical opportunity pass until the ceasefire is agreed upon and officially starts.
If you consider this bad faith negotiating than fair enough, but for good or bad Israel has been pretty consistent with this approach.
We are talking about a guy who has stayed out of the public for a very long time out of fears of assassination. has close ties to Iran, is 64 years old, but was just going down with the ship in his barracks? Maybe, but I think the dude is alive and doing just fine.
I don't know how much you have been paying attention the last 11 months, but this is actually not a very good thing if you are an Arab and interested in being alive and doing just fine.
Whether true or not, at this point it is pretty much accepted in the entire MENA that the IRI is completely compromised by Mossad, and being close to them is as good as a one way ticket to Paradise.
They still have a lot of missiles, bombs, drones, etc. so I am not suggesting they are not very dangerous still, but through their complete ineptitude the IRI does not have a very good reputation right now.
Seems like for the past year while the IRI and it’s proxies were praying to Allah for Israel’s downfall and elating in the fact that American college students were globalizing the intifada, the Israelis were doing actual work and preparation. It’s impressive how many steps ahead of their enemies they’ve been at every turn.
Israel is basically just hoping he was there.
Israel checking if Nasrallah was at Hezbollah’s Beirut HQ at time of strike
Israel is checking if Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah was at the terror group’s headquarters in Beirut when it was struck by the Israeli Air Force a short while ago, sources tell Israeli media.
The IDF said that it struck Hezbollah’s central headquarters built under civilian buildings in the Dahiyeh suburb of Beirut, but did not say if Nasrallah was the target
F16s busted the
There is also the fallout. In a panic, Hez can break their already weak opsec and start communicating wanting to know if the supreme leader is ok which can then give Israel new clues where to start looking.
If Israel evacuates the north to avoid civilian casualties, that's used as proof that Hezbollah activities are minimally impacting and the response is overblown.
If Lebanon doesn't evacuate areas nearby Hezbollah headquarters, that's used as proof that Israel response is too violent.
It's all upside down all the times
It is not. In fact, it would be illegal to execute children with a sniper rifle just about everywhere.
The argument would be -
a) What collateral damage, if any, is okay when you "defend" yourself from an enemy.
b) How to approach warfare with an enemy that has built its infrastrcture as tangled as possible with civilian lives. Either by design or by necessity.
I don't know the answer to either. I'm 100% sure that the level Israel is willing to accept in question A is way too high and way higher tha
There is a huge difference between having a base in a city and a base underneath a hospital or a inside of a residential complex. But either is a military target. It’s no problem for me and should not be for anyone that believes there is such a thing as a just war to say that yes, a military target is a military target. If Hezbollah decided to attack one of those military bases, then they would technically not be committing a war crime so long as they didn’t pair it with intentionally targeting civilian infrastructure and buildings for no military purpose. However it would be bad, not because civilian casualties are inherently war crimes, but because they started the war only because they believe in wiping out the state of Israel.
People are mistaking it for some slippery slope where you can just kill as many civilians as you want with no regards for their lives. But it’s not a slippery slope so long as there is no casus belli. If you have countries around you constantly giving you internationally justified reason for going to war, you are under no moral obligation to just allow them to attack you simply because you are stronger than them. Furthermore, they have an international obligation not to enter into war against you for no reason.
Let me give you an example: Palestine has a legitimate claim to self-determination. That is absolutely true. The idea that they have a similar claim to the territory of Israel is absolutely not internationally justified. So they can go to the international community and ask them to mediate a referendum on self-determination, but if they choose to use government sanctioned violence to achieve those ends, Israel is under no obligation to tolerate that. Just like the IRS didn’t have an internationally recognized right to commit terrorism either.
If you think those international laws are unfair or arbitrary, that’s fine, but you don’t then get to go point to them as some kind of linguistic weapon against Israel. Genocide absolutely does not mean “when civilians die”. Civilians dying is tragic, but that’s not what that means.
The Jerusalem Post | JPost.com 
Nasrallah is being reported dead by IDF.
Btw @checkraisedraw , remember when i told you the AP is leftist pravda, utter partisan trash, and you thought i was insane claiming that?
this is the headline
Whether a war is just isn’t measured by looking how many people died on each side. If you provoke another country by invading it or by sending rockets at it, expect retaliation. It’s called casus belli. And if you continue your attack even if it’s hopeless, that doesn’t mean they have to stop attacking you.
The fact that you’re even asking this question shows you’re not even thinking about the right questions to ask.
How many innocent people needlessly die is part (or should be) of the calculation. That one side started or escalated something doesn’t give the other side a free pass on morality. Whether a military action is legal is on a case by case basis no matter who started what.
