Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]Edit: RULES FOR THIS THREAD
Posting guidelines for Politics and Soci...
These are our baselines. We're not reinventing the wheel here. If you aren't sure if something is acceptable to post, its better to ask first. If you think someone is posting something that violates the above guidelines, please report it or PM me rather than responding in kind.
To reiterate some of the points:
1. No personal attacks. This is a broad instruction, but, in general, we want to focus on attacking an argument rather than the poster making it. It is fine to say a post is antisemitic; it is not okay to call someone an antisemite over and over. If you believe someone is making antisemitic posts, report them or PM me. The same goes for calling people "baby killers" and "genocide lovers". You are allowed to argue that an action supports genocide or that the consequences of certain policies results in the death of children, but we are no longer going to be speaking to one another's intentions. It is not productive to the conversation and doesn't further any debate.
2. Racist posts and other bigoted statements that target a particular group or individuals of such groups with derogatory comments are not allowed. This should not need further explanation.
3. Graphic Images need to be in spoilers with a trigger warning.
4. Wishing Harm on other posters will result in an immediate timeout.
5. Genocidal statements such as "Kill 'em all" etc, are no longer permissible in the thread.
If anyone has any questions about the above, please PM me. I don't want a discussion about the rules to derail the content of this thread. If anything needs clarifying, I will do that in this thread.
Please be aware this thread is strictly moderated[/quote]
ISIS? you mean the guys that the USA funded to fight a dirty war in Syria and use as proxies against Iran?
Israel is systematically destroying the cultural heritage sites of Gaza.
their attacks leaving some 318 Muslim and Christian places of worship in ruins,
As of 17 September 2024, UNESCO has verified damage to 69 sites: 10 religious sites, 43 buildings of historical and artistic interest, two repositories of movable cultural property, six monuments, one museum and seven archaeological sites. Other reports give a much higher number of affected sites.
One especially striking example of a site reduced to rubble is the Great Mosque of Gaza, considered by many to be the oldest mosque in the territory and a symbol of resilience. The Church of Saint Porphyrius – the oldest Christian church in Gaza, built by the Crusaders in 1150 – has also been hit by Israeli airstrikes.
Israel is systematically destroying the cultural heritage sites of Gaza.
Ironically, the Great Mosque was originally a church and has been destroyed and rebuilt several times in the last 1000 years. The current iteration was built in the 1920s. When one of the oldest religious structures in your city was built in 1920, that kind of goes against the notion you are some ancient civilization that was recently conquered.
As has been pointed out, very little people lived in Gaza historically until Palestinian refugees settled there post 1948 and underwent a tremendous population boom courtesy of Western largesse.
I didn't realize murderous kidnappers brought their hostages to hospital after raping them. You know, instead of keeping them as hostages and continuing to rape them until they were dead.
Don't you think that the fighting back has created the deteriorated conditions the Arabs are living in now?
Like the Ukrainians fighting back against the Russians? Shouldn’t they just end their suffering and submit to Russia?
Just to clarify, I’m not talking about Hamas but rather the Palestinians at large that want sovereignty.
Like the Ukrainians fighting back against the Russians? Shouldn’t they just end their suffering and submit to Russia?
Just to clarify, I’m not talking about Hamas but rather the Palestinians at large that want sovereignty.
What if I told you that Gaza isn't Israel. They can have sovereignty relatively soon (in a historical context) over there. It starts with not attacking Israel. That leads to an end of the blockade. And then who knows.
But Gaza, that's their own place already. Their government, their people.
In a world where the Arab world fully normalizes with the idea of Israel existing, this is over.
What if I told you that Gaza isn't Israel. They can have sovereignty relatively soon (in a historical context) over there. It starts with not attacking Israel. That leads to an end of the blockade. And then who knows.
But Gaza, that's their own place already. Their government, their people.
In a world where the Arab world fully normalizes with the idea of Israel existing, this is over.
Which is why I said I wasn’t talking about Hamas. Mongidig is talking about something much broader.
There is no path to a Palestinian state. There is no way Israel can allow a terrorist nation to have the high ground which is what would happen if they gave up the West Bank. The best solution would be for Israel to gain sovereignty over Gaza and the West Bank. They would need to deport all terrorists and terrorist sympathizers. Then Arabs could begin a path to Israeli citizenship. This would be the best case scenario for the Arabs. They would have the opportunity to make a lot more money than i
No, Israel won't do this, because they don't want to give the Arabs the vote. It would dilute the Jewish majority. The Israelis want to carry on running the apartheid system in the West Bank, which they couldn't -- for fear of American reaction -- if they formally annexed it. They just want to keep on killing, intimidating and expropriating Arab landowners until there aren't any left. It's not like anybody's going to stop them, because the Americans can pretend not to notice.
But thankfully Israel isn't a genocidal state.
Just fully normalize relations with a nation that is bombing hospitals and schools and maybe we pinky-swear Palestinians won't be ethnically cleansed from Gaza.
Meanwhile
Most of the Arab world has done so, but that is to overlook Iran, which isn't even an Arab nation but has spotted an opportunity to cause trouble and expand its influence.
That is untrue. And you will find it impossible to demonstrate this. We have horrible, bad, neutral, and a tiny bit of "ya ok let's really work with Israel", relations wise. Think of normal cooperation between truly friendly nations. Even here, cooperation is shadow cooperation most of the time.
EVEN Egypt, is a frenemy, we learned. Look at what they were up to on the other side of the tunnels! That good sir, is a straight up frenemy. That's not normalized.
I believe the Saudi vision is THE vision for the middle east. Stop fighting, innovate, modernize, and thrive.
Like the Ukrainians fighting back against the Russians? Shouldn’t they just end their suffering and submit to Russia?
Just to clarify, I’m not talking about Hamas but rather the Palestinians at large that want sovereignty.
That’s a stupid comparison because the Palestinians are actually like Russia and Israel is like Ukraine. If you want to use simple, childlike comparisons, it’s easy to see why the US is funding both Israel and Ukraine. In both conflicts the US is backing an ally who was attacked.
That's flat-earth batty. The Pals have left only IIRC 22% of the land granted by the UN in 1948. They are the losers. They've been losing land since 1900 and are still losing land. The Israelis have had the upper hand since the 1930s--before they were even Israeli.
Deserved. Guy sounds like a psycho.
Support for Hamas
On 7 October 2023, the day of the Hamas-led attacks in southern Israel in which 1,139 people died and hundreds were taken hostage, Mandela said: "We support the Palestinian right to resist and call on all resistance formations to likewise support Operation Al Aqsa Flood and intensify the struggle on all fronts."
He also told the international community to "rise to the occasion and support Hamas and the Palestinian resistance in fighting their oppressor".
After Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh was assassinated by Israel in Tehran in July, Mandela eulogised him as a "great leader and an inspiration to all revolutionaries and freedom fighters of the world”.
On Thursday, Mandela said: "I have been criticised for statements that I have made in support of the Palestinian Resistance and its various formations.
Want to enter UK? Don’t support terrorists. Why should anyone want to let this man into their country just because he’s someone’s grandson.
He's the grandson of a terrorist
More terrorism:
You don’t get to coast off of your grandpa’s name forever.
Also maybe if he wasn’t so focused on what’s happening in the Middle East he would have time to try to fix the horrible domestic issues he has in his country. Instead he wants to distract his people from his incompetence.
That's flat-earth batty. The Pals have left only IIRC 22% of the land granted by the UN in 1948. They are the losers. They've been losing land since 1900 and are still losing land. The Israelis have had the upper hand since the 1930s--before they were even Israeli.
Not sure what flat earth theory has to do with anything. Let’s stay on topic. The Palestinians would have 100% or more of the land they were granted if they could manage to stop trying to kill Jews. The surrounding nations that learned to make at least a shaky peace with Israel have been able to hold onto their lands.
I don’t want to be the one to break it to you, but when you start wars, sometimes the unintended consequence is that you lose territory.
No I mean his grandfather, Nelson Mandela, was considered a terrorist by the West including the USA UK and Israel for decades. None of the people supporting Israel in this thread would have supported Mandela.
