Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]
More news taken out of context. The "children" you speak of are late teen enemy combatants. You make it sound like young children are being targeted.
The referenced NYT article was specifically about preteen children.
They opened up the Lebanon front because they are tired of having missiles shot at them. They would like to get the 80k displaced citizens in the area back to their homes. They also knew that a massive OCT 7th style attack was being planned by Hezbollah. They have significantly neutralized the threat from the north. I disagree that they have bitten off more than they can chew.
I agree that there were many legitimate reasons to go to war. I also agree I don’t have access to all the intelligence that the IDF and Israel has. I don’t think it follows that this means Israel made the right strategic reason to escalate the war, or that I have to agree with everything that has happened after they assassinated Nasrallah and the top leadership of Lebanon. There are more implications to fighting a full three front war other than whether given a sufficient period of time in a vacuum they can win.
Boids has posted Holocaust analogies about ten times (possibly more??) since it was no longer allowed from either side. This was after people complained about Victor using it. I deleted them over and over again, restated the policy. It’s not a single instance, far from it.When a person can’t follow a simple instruction, and keeps breaking the same very basic rule, Im going to a
Okay. But are you saying you equate Palestinian self determination with Hamas? It's quite specific word association from you is all.
They're coming quite close to asserting that the UN is in league with Hamas/Hezbollah, and I wish that I was exaggerating.
They're coming quite close to asserting that the UN is in league with Hamas/Hezbollah, and I wish that I was exaggerating.
The UN is definitely in league with Hamas/Hezbollah. Organizations like UNRWA and UNIFIL are completely compromised and corrupt, and the people of Lebanon, Israel and Palestine are all much the worse off for it.
That is the true tragedy. Who benefits from UNIFIL letting Hezbollah set up shop and attack Israel. Who benefits from UNRWA smuggling in unimaginably large amounts of arms to Hamas, PIJ and other militant groups. Who benefits from their schools being used to push virulent antisemitism and extremism? Obviously corrupt UN officials benefit. But the people themselves they are tasked with serving, not at all.
And there is zero vision to make anything better. All the UN wants to do is go back to October 6th 2023 status quo and resume the corruption gravy train.
They're coming quite close to asserting that the UN is in league with Hamas/Hezbollah, and I wish that I was exaggerating.
WSJ been manufacturing that consent
Thats funny. You can say the exact same thing about Israel. It has more or less peaceful, normalized relations with all the countries in the MENA that aren't constantly attacking them and promising to destroy them. Which is the vast majority of countries. In fact, Israel only attacks the small number of countries that attack them first. Funny how that works.It really is as
The degree of "nailing it" here is yuge
You've been on a truth tear.
WSJ opinion is known for publishing "right wing" material that challenges the general MSM leftist orthodoxy. Although I am sure Luckbox would say it is controlled dissent.
its not dissent. its a mouthpiece for the establishment.
They aren't Hamas propaganda per se, but they are generally sensational and stupid and have an obvious agenda. I would never go to any of the these places to get any balanced, deep analysis of what is going on.
I am genuinely curious what outlets you find credible.
All of these were reporting in a way sympathetic to Israel at the beginning of this and they’re all mostly in line with whatever the establishment (not progressive) Democratic / centrist Republican take is. You’re going to have to go pretty far-right or permahawk neoliberal at this point to get the kind of takes you seem to think make sense.
Israel hasn't just been peacefully minding its own business in the WB and Gaza.
Micro, we both know that Intifadas and Oct 7's have been happening for decades. We both know Hamas is an Iranian proxy in and of itself.
When Gaza was part of Egypt from 1949 to 1967 (give or take), nobody really cared about Gaza. It probably should have stayed that way (part of Egypt).
The West Bank is even trickier, because as it's been outlined in here many times, it's 20-ish km to Jerusalem. That's very close, strategically (when you have hostiles there). But nobody would care if either place wasn't hostile, or intent on "River to the Sea". They'd be like the other 2 million Arabs in Israel.
This thread fudementally doesn't see that if this region WANTED peace, it would have it. Believe me, the Saudies get it. They're already at the "let's just live with them" stage (them being the Jews). I'm not sure we can convince everyone else till this regime in Iran is gone.
Jon Elmer always calls it military vandalism. no point it to it but wanton destruction and collective punishment on civilians. it doesnt help them in combat goals.
I follow the official IDF accounts. I don't know when this was allegedly posted to their social.
I came across this from Gabor the other day. he makes a lot compelling points. I dont agree with all that he says fwiw.
Micro, we both know that Intifadas and Oct 7's have been happening for decades. We both know Hamas is an Iranian proxy in and of itself. When Gaza was part of Egypt from 1949 to 1967 (give or take), nobody really cared about Gaza. It probably should have stayed that way (part of Egypt). The West Bank is even trickier, because as it's been outlined in here many times, it's 20-is
Pretty tough to claim Israel wants peace when West Bank settlements exist and are expanding rapidly and violently.
British novelist Howard Jacobson has claimed in an article, and again in this phone interview with a New Yorker reporter, that the BBC is a Hamas propaganda arm because it has shown child casualties of Israel's bombardment of Gaza. He claims this is the 'blood libel' -- even though these are children actually killed by the Jewish state, whereas the whole point of the medieval blood libel was that, in the absence of any real criminal justice system, let alone a criminal investigation system, certain paedophiliac murders were blamed on the local Jews for no good reason at all.
Jacobson even claims that Westerners are far less concerned about child deaths in Ukraine. The interviewer points out that child casualties make up a far smaller proportion, and a far smaller absolute number, in Ukraine, because children tend to be evacuated from the areas of the most intense combat, which is simply not possible in Gaza. Jacobson still affects not to get it. He is clearly troubled and in a state of cognitive dissonance, because he wants to credit Israel with a uniquely moral character that it just does not have. (Any more than it has any less 'right to exist' than any other state. It's just another self-interested country that does what it does and you can like it or not -- Jacobson clearly doesn't, but is tying himself in knots to avoid admitting it even to himself.)
British novelist Howard Jacobson has claimed in an article, and again in this phone interview with a New Yorker reporter, that the BBC is a Hamas propaganda arm because it has shown child casualties of Israel's bombardment of Gaza. He claims this is the 'blood libel' -- even though these are children actually killed by the Jewish state, whereas the whole point of the medieval b
I read this. Particularly funny since I can remember a stark difference in tone when the BBC initially reported on Oct 7 vs Palestinian civilian casualties. Terms like massacre, slaughtered, and so on used for Israelis while thousands of Palestinian civilians merely died.
Pretty tough to claim Israel wants peace when West Bank settlements exist and are expanding rapidly and violently.
Everyone in every side of every conflict ever "wants peace" in the sense that everyone wants their opponent to unilaterally surrender. I'm sure Putin would love it if Ukrainians stopped fighting back and quietly committed mass suicide or peacefully agreed to become slave laborers.
