[WPT Global] Official Thread

i hope youre not looking for a payday to not post the evidence. i see suspicious stuff happening on the site.

Hi Alex ,
My id account is 308779 on WPT.
After recording myself playing for 3h and send all the documents i still waiting for confirmation of your team to verify my account,
Could you please manage this situation and give me some news about my account?
Thank you so much!

I really don't care about money. I would like to see a poker platform that actively listens to it's regulars, what alex is selectively doing here. A platform that keeps it's word for a long term, does not take away rakeback or player funds without any notice, what alex promised but did not keep he's word. Basically a place where a poker pro can predict their future.

I'm a winner at mid stakes for 20 years on pokerstars, ipoker, gg, partypoker, coinpoker wptg also, in most holdem formats from zoom to full ring but besides my first years of poker no platform offered any kind of predictability in the long run. In online poker you are always on edge and depend on the platforms solutions to control the enviroment any kind of bad behaviour that brings fast money to the regulars is exploited to the max and ruins poker experience for regulars and recreationals also.

I've been through segregation of countries, when governments wanted a piece of the big gambling pie and excluded citizens from playing on international platforms, i've been through segregation at patypoker when suddenly regulars did not see players that lost with more than -10bb on any table, i've been through the start of camping when on all platforms there would be 20 tables 5 out of 6 with no one playing just waiting for the recreational to join and tables started after, i lost a bankroll playing hu to prove a point with 3 other players sitting out and no one cared on partypoker and ipoker also, i got my rake cut from 80% to 20% without any notice on various platforms, got my funds confiscated (40k) tried to contact a lawyer for him to inform me that both the poker platform and the autorithy who should protect the integrity of the games had their office in the same hotel at different floors. I've seen the development and implementation of RTAs on all poker platforms, played agains proven bots (they had identical stats for 300k hands on 2 different nicknames at 2 different stakes, 12 years ago).

I enjoy the game but with years passing i would like to play somewhere professionaly where action is being taken against cheaters of any type, where rake and promotions is predictable for more than one year, funds are safe and there is a decent recreational pool that allows weaker regs to profit as well, in the long run i learned that there is more money to be won from reg battles than from whales who come and go, but the weak regs do not survive without rakeback and whales. All this should pass as common sense but i can assure you there are nowhere to be found online.

Thank you for taking your time to read my story, tried to sum it up as much as possible. And let's hope that at some point my dream platform will come true.

Yes. If, when you sit down, you are either the first or second player at that table, you are eligible for the table starter reward.

The table starter reward is the first part of our loyalty program. We have further plans for loyalty, but nothing in the next couple of months.

There are actually a couple of users that I have blocked (which is quite an unprecedented step for me, I've been posting on 2+2 for twenty years but I don't think I blocked people ever before.)

Truth is, while I have found posting here to be valuable overall, it's not a good use of my time to respond over and over again to the same issues, especially if it's trolling.

I think the account you refer to has been posting here for years about his case, which we answered both publicly and privately at the time. It was a clear case of cheating (IIRC, multi-accounting) and I reviewed the evidence at the time to be sure we had a solid case.

Unfortunately, sometimes people get caught by security and then come to the forums to complain. They believe that by putting us under this pressure, we'll cave and refund their money, or reveal something about how they got caught so that they can avoid detection next time. Sometimes they'll also complain to the regulator. From their point of view, these are just easy tactics that are worth trying, because their money is gone and even a 1% chance of getting it back by kicking up a fuss is worth a try.

Another example relevant to this thread is players who accuse us of a super user scandal like the one on GG last year. This is how that case went:

1. They datamined from the games on WPTG, using a tool that we clearly prohibit. (They knew what they were doing was wrong and they had to use a specially engineered version of the software, designed to bypass our detection methods).

2. They then sent a report to our security team, claiming unfair play, sharing the data from their prohibited tool. Our security team investigated the claims.

3. To be fair to them - we did indeed find a game integrity violation (which, importantly (a) had already been identified by our proactive game integrity tools; (b) came from the Asian network, not WPT Global, and so mainly impacted Asian players; and (c) was not similar to GG's super user exploit) and we made some large refunds in February of this year.

4. What the group didn't know is that we also kicked off an investigation into their prohibited software usage at the same time.

5. When we had solid evidence we then took action, with consequences ranging from complete confiscation and permanent ban, to a warning, depending on the severity of the offence, the co-operation shown by the players, and other mitigating factors.

6. Some members of this group are now posting here trying to make us look bad.

This is about as transparent as I can be about the case and I hope this helps to put some of the trolling in this thread, in context.

I will follow up with the team, thanks for your co-operation so far.

6. Some members of this group are now posting here trying to make us look bad.

The superuser scandal is just something that Alex refuses to adress. It would be very easy for him to post some winrates from certain players to prove us wrong. I suspect a bunch of players with 100bb /100 hands on the platform, maybe even more.

In the real world very good regulars manage to win most of the time. This is not the case on WPTG i know several players winning ranging from 2 to 20bb online on a monthly basis for years that do not manage to win in the "best games online". And let's say 20-30 highstakers on any other platform online manage to be break even or even lose in WPTG games, i would suggest anyone who can see winning history at the tables 25/50/100 and above look who is winning, most of the tables have a big winner with under 5k hands and also maybe a player playing 60 20.

There are still money to be made because there are a lot of honest fish, but only a regular who knows how to avoid super users can win on the platform.

Whenever i asked about player winrates Alex ignored the question. I have no interest to downplay any platform. GG and WPN are full of RTAs and collusion in WPN. Stars does not manage to block players who bumhunt by having another person clicking on the tables to get position on the fish while they play other tables, something i suspect happens on GG high stakes as well.

So as you can see most platforms are ignorant or unable to solve cheater problems, WPTG had 30 accounts colluding on a 1 year span at least until i ranted here about them, but the superuser problem they have now is much worse.

alex you have been playing 20 years but cant realise some of your whales are winning at a crazy winrate and it cant happens over a long period unless there is cheating involve?

please someone tell me how to avoid superusers cause its very difficult, the super users are usually those you want to play with until you realise you cant beat them.

when you realise it its already too late

3- you found violation but needed the regs to police the game themselves?

its easy to say : "oh we knew there was a cheater we didnt need you"

4- i hate huds and all that but if you cant catch cheaters the players has to take steps and accumulate proofs to protect themselve, and basically youre making everything possible so regs dont have the tools to do it.

So do your job and regs wont have to do that. every regs i know are getting crushed right now by chinese accounts and its been going on for a while, soon enough there wont be any players playing there outside of superusers playing between each other!

Imagine playing a game with all cards revealed must be so fun!

Hi Alex

I've seen a lot of responses here about KYC and being locked out of accounts when withdrawing.

I have just set up an account and intend on depositing 2kish. I will be travelling in Thailand for 2/3 months and plan to play a lot of volume from there and grinding the deposit bonus. Will this be an issue if I try to withdraw while I'm away? I will of course be able to provide passport, proof of address and statements with my home address, but will my location be an issue?

I've never heard of sites asking for video proof of ones home address and this worries me given I will be temporarily out of the country.

Thanks in advance

Hello Alex,

I just saw the news about the WPTG and Triton partnership.

Can you share what's coming for WPTG players from this? And how soon?

One of our most basic proactive detection mechanisms is to identify players who have abnormal winrates, but please bear in mind that winrates of 20bb/100+ are not uncommon on WPTG.

We had already caught the person that was reported in the post you're referring to.

The honest truth is that we have dedicated most of our resources to catching high-value, impactful cheating - like organised collusion, bots, RTA, etc. We've dedicated very little time and effort to preventing fraud that primarily harms us, like creating duplicate accounts, and the Asian partners on our network just see this as a cost of doing business.

The reports here that have been useful have all been about that kind of low-level cheating and this thread has been a bit of a wake-up call that we need to do something about it for players to take us seriously.

This won't be a problem, we do accept players from Thailand. If you intend on remaining in Thailand on a long-term basis I'd try to get proof of address showing your residence there (like a rental agreement).

The partnership is mainly about bringing new players to WPT Global. There will occasionally be opportunities to our players to go to Triton events, especially our VIPs, but that isn't the primary goal of the partnership.

Hello Alex

The reason for our account suspension, according to the poker room, is that we are supposedly the same person. Here’s why that’s not true:

1. We never played at the same table and always played at different times from different locations. We never played from the same location, which can be easily verified by checking our account logs.

2. We used different devices and never used a VPN.

3. The poker room did not provide any evidence of rule violations. We were not asked for a video interview or a game recording. We are ready to provide any evidence.

4. How can we be the same person if we played from different parts of the world and never used a VPN? This can be verified through the logs. We have already provided visas and hotel bookings, confirming that we were in different countries during the last week of play. I was in Montenegro and played from there last week before ban. Vitalii left in Bali. Just see logs of our playing. Please. I sent all the proofs that i was in Montenegro and Vitalii send all the proofs that he left in Bali.

5. We are two different professional players, and dozens of regulars from Macau, where we played, know us.

6. We have attended different WPT offline poker series and are willing to visit the office in person to undergo any checks.

7. Any of us never used any screen casting software or remote control programs.

The money we earned is our honest income as professional players, and it is needed for our families and children. You cannot just take it away without reason. We demand that you provide at least one piece of evidence proving we are the same person.

We believe this is a mistake and are simply asking for a fair and independent investigation. Please provide evidence so that we can refute it. We are ready to undergo any checks. You cannot just take money from players without providing any proofs.

Hello Alex!

I am a long time regular in Macau. I have met both the Ukrainian and Russian guy in question and I just wanted to put in a good word for them. I think your investigation got it wrong this time. They very much are two different people and they have always acted well and played the game up straight.

Happy to share my contact info or have a call or something if you have the time.

/Peter

Hi Alex, i want to know your opinion about a couple of things:

First there are a lot of suspicius players every day at the tables (i play mostly the 20s and 40s tables). Not necessary to be James Bond too know they are cheating:

- Always chinesse names, usually but not always 4 characters
- VPIP/PFR usually try to converge around 30/20 on the "long" run
- Always new IDs and a few hands
- Only one player per table of this kind normally
- Tones of insta-weird moves specially on postflop

Send you a couple of images here (taken a few days ago probably this accounts are burned now) and some new IDs that i collect today . Pretty sure that this bots/cheaters are creating new accounts every week because you always see new IDs all the ****ing days with same characteristics

7153079
7159299
7158559
7174605
7177497
7178612

Hope other regs can have atention to this guys too so we can have more conclusions

Another thing is other problem that for sure put the WPTG player on an inferiority and disadvantage situation. We can´t put colors and notes to the players while the asian guys/cheaters who create accounts every day via Asian skins could. That thing doesnt even allow us to mark any player, taking any note on any suspicius plays or whatever.
I´m happy with the exclusion of the HUD on your room but men if i can´t even take a note or put a color to my opponnets...that kills a lot of the fun for improve and enjoy the game. But the worst thing is other players playing on the same table as us have this capacity so they are on a clear advantage. I think all the players want to have a solution for this and play on fair conditions

Same for the option of download our hand historys to study our game out of the table and see any possible threat

Thanks for all. Be carefull out there guys

Yes, I'd encourage anyone who plays these games to keep reporting these accounts after every session. I can't say for sure but I suspect they are part of some exploit Bot/RTA ring because many of them are playing the same awkward aggro style.

One funny thing that happens is that often after they get stacked, they are forced to leave the table instead of rebuying. I'd presume this is because they keep the funds low on each account to minimize the risk of confiscation.

Actually after the first one, my reports have been ignored.

Meanwhile the 45/10 players winning 3 stacks and then quitting, openlimping almost everyhand but 3betting 87o when btn has 65s, are multiplying. Keep an eye on them.

@alex I have a list of ppl who are clearly winning players at 50/100 with 10k hands + that are not tagged as pro.
This is extremely disappointing. Would you consider their winrates to tag them manually? I think your AI can be wrong in some cases

1.5 Year Review of WPT Global

I. Sign-up and KYC (super strict)

It took me over 2 weeks to complete the process. I'm an expat in Thailand and have been here for over 10+ years. I'm married and we own our house, but the rules in Thailand specifically do not allow non-Thais to own the house on record. Additionally, all the utilities are written in Thai, so my wife handles all the bills and they're in here name. The KYC process included for me to spend 1/2 the day at Thailand Immigration to pay for a certified letter that verified my address. Then, had to wait for it to me snail mailed to my house. Only after this could I resubmit my Thai Drivers License, Thai residency card, Passport, and Thailand Immigration Residency Verification.

2. Initial Deposit

After I finally got the KYC completed, the next hurdle was depositing from the available funding sources. There wasn't anyway for me to deposit without cryptocurrency (1.5 years ago). In Thailand, foreigners cannot get accounts at Thai crypto exchanges. My wife opened an account at the exchange and we bought crypto for account funding. NOTE: You must save and keep the same crypto wallet address that you fund the WPTG account and it's the only route to a withdrawl. They will not approve your withdrawl to a different wallet. (Changes after 1+ years includes Thai Banking Options which are fast and reliable.)

3. Games

WPTG utilizes a Straddle + Ante at all full 8-max tables. The Pace (6-max fast fold) includes a Straddle but no ante. The player pools are mostly Asian as it appears from the players names in Chinese/Korean/Japanese, etc.

---> Initially, it was pretty obvious that there was cheating. I reported it and received email auto response but never any results. I would report it in-game and after reporting a couple of times, they required me to PAY to submit and report any cheating....WTF!! There must be so many people reporting cheaters that it became unable to manage all the reportings. Now, I don't bother reporting and screen record when I observe suspect activity and email it to security.

==> I quit playing there for several months and just left the account alone due to such obvious collusion and by all appearances wasn't getting anywhere with security/reporting. I went back spectate and see if there was the same situation after several months. First, the updated software included some sort of computer verification sequence after logging in. This was not there before. The games had a few of the accounts that I recognized, but most of them were new 'Regs'. Spectating, I did not see the same sort of issues. I don't know what they did, but I appreciated the effort with some sort of updated security, so I started playing there again. I HAVE NOT SEEN ANY CHEATING or obvious COLLUSION since I started playing there again. Now, my win rate is appropriate vs getting sucked out on far too often. Also, spots where knowing burned cards (influencing OUTs = Collusion) hasn't reappeared anything close to where it was.

4. Player Stats & Hand History

There were no HUD Stats or Hand Histories available for anyone to view. This is suspect. There is no way to independantly catch anyone you suspect is cheating. Since we all know that sites have engineered win rates like they do at GG, that's where I feel/felt untrusting of WPTG. Now, there are VPIP/PFR and hand level counts available on the players profile in-game now. This is an improvement, but falls short of giving up the data to independantly expose cheating. WPTG is clearly attempting to take an approach where players are evaluated at the table and not by MDA (mass data analysis). Pros and Cons here.

--> Security has improved. (Though they still only allow you to report a couple of suspect players before they start charging you)
==> Very difficult to get better and improve your game without your own hand history to evaluate yourself. I contacted customer support and verified that I was allowed to screen record, but that's the extent of a players ability to self evaluate. There's no way to easily study. Recording your sessions and rewatching and that's it.

5. Withdrawls

If you use crypto, you must receive the withdrawl from the same wallet address that you used to deposit. Do not know of any exceptions to this rule. At this time there are banking options for Thai Bank Accounts via QR code. It's fast and efficient and reliable. Well Done!!

SUMMARY

There have been quiet a few changes over the last 1.5+ years at WPT Global. Most the changes are with security and fall short, but have improved in my opinion. I currently believe the games to be more fair than they were before, though collusion is still there for sure. I don't beieve it's from RTA (which I really don't care about because GTO doesn't win vs the Asian pool. I do believe that there would be a balance that could be reached for hand history data of your own game play, with other players info scrubbed. This would allow for players to self study and improve their game. This is important for the site to have players that go up in stakes and not continue to manipulate the lower stakes. Clearly the goal as a player is to get to the next stake level. WPT Global falls short of allowing players to improve vs fighting cheaters. If you want to improve your game, this is not the site for you. You will need to go play on another site that will offer you the ability to evaluate your game play data.

Initial Grade: D

Current Grade: C

What!!! Players have to pay to report cheaters, wtf how much? I have seen 888 come up with bonkers ideas but this is messed up.

Hi Alex, you are closed your service in Slovakia. Do you have plan open it sometimes again? And what was reason if you can tell me. Thx

Hi alex id game : 537122 I feel the system has been unfair to me. My account was permanently banned without a valid reason. I have had an account here for a long time, and I have always played normally. One day, they scanned my account, disabled my withdrawal feature, and claimed that I was using multiple accounts on their system. I wrote to them explaining that I had not done that because I only had one account. I had previously requested to switch agents, which they approved, and I have been using that account ever since. Throughout my time playing, I strictly followed their rules. After exactly 15 days of review, they gave me a completely unexpected result: I was permanently banned from the system without any explanation

Can any regulars comment on the 2 highly skilled players per table rule? I have seen a number of tables with what is surely more than 2 highly skilled players. Being tagged as one myself and struggling to land tables it seems annoying but I don't know if this rule changes stake to stake or what. Thanks for any input.

It appears this rule is not valid for $ tables at any stakes (only for Yuan tables), but sometimes (FWIW most of the time when the table is about to break up) can be seated more than 2 pros at Yuan tables as well ( At Yuan's higher stakes 25/50/100+ too)

On average the tables at 25/50/100 - 50/100/200, will have 5 to 6 to highly skilled players. The fairplay system is highly flawed.

Alex mentioned, that some stakes/game types don´t have this rule because of player liquidity

It's not like that Sav, the restriction at 10/20 20/40 50/100 and 100/200 is always active (I'm just not sure whether is 2 or 3 pros allowed per table)
The problem is that the AI is not perfect: there are at least 5-6 regs who play everyday ( and I guess have solid winrates after 5k+ hands) who are not restricted and can join whatever table they want
I had already mentioned this a couple posts ago, if Alex is keen I'm willing to share their nicknames