2024 ELECTION THREAD
The next presidential race will be here soon! Please see current Bovada odds. Thoughts?
they didn't lie in confirmation hearings about Roe, and your side decided that there are to be no questions about decisions on hypothetical cases in judicial confirmation hearings.
yes, you keep listing reasons about why if you have decades of leftist courts raping the constitution beyond recognition, it must somehow be mandatory to keep it that way or "people lose confidence in the court".
lol at settled leftism becoming immortal and people crying if after 50 years of leftist courts the first rig
so justice shouldnt be shared by both parties ?
i though justice was appreciate by both sides .
but yes i get it.
today criminals without ethics are welcome to be presidents so you correct.
but decades ago people did give a fack about decency, ethics, and doing the right thing for the greater good.....
it wasnt the left (which left you speak of in the US btw ?) but just common sense that lead the US for the last 50 years.
there was no commie left controlling the US in any shape or form, its in your mind buddy ....
they didn't lie in confirmation hearings about Roe, and your side decided that there are to be no questions about decisions on hypothetical cases in judicial confirmation hearings.
yes, you keep listing reasons about why if you have decades of leftist courts raping the constitution beyond recognition, it must somehow be mandatory to keep it that way or "people lose confidence in the court".
lol at settled leftism becoming immortal and people crying if after 50 years of leftist courts the first rig
Idk what there is to respond to here, I think it’s bad to lie to the senate in order to get confirmed. if they had said “I will overturn Roe if I get on the court” then I wouldn’t accuse them of lying or undermining the legitimacy of the court.
the judiciary basically has no set way they have to decide any law, they can basically shred the constitution if they get enough of them to agree on it, so all we’re talking about here is a matter of norms. I think a better counterexample to the point I’m trying to make is that there might have been justices that were appointed to the court on the condition of them upholding segregation and then when they overturned it they technically did the same thing as overturning Roe. That would probably be a better argument.
ok the fedposting thing is pretty off the rails. Most of us have been on these forums for long enough to already be retired with a federal pension--it's totally absurd lol
There is no left in the U.S. .
Except you of course being so far right , 95% of every politicians are left from your pov but your pov is certainly not mainstream .
There is.
The problem is that so many of the the left and more progressive voters have somehow persuaded themsleves that continually voting for the least worst candidate is a good idea rather than an inevitable disaster.
They also do one hell of a lot of giving up - everything is impossible and so many reasons why things can't be done so there's no point trying. Sadly the right is far too stupid to realise it.
Idk what there is to respond to here, I think it’s bad to lie to the senate in order to get confirmed. if they had said “I will overturn Roe if I get on the court” then I wouldn’t accuse them of lying or undermining the legitimacy of the court.
the judiciary basically has no set way they have to decide any law, they can basically shred the constitution if they get enough of them to agree on it, so all we’re talking about here is a matter of norms. I think a better counterexample to the point I’m
they didn't lie in senate confirmation.
A close examination of the carefully worded answers by the three Trump appointees, however, shows that while each acknowledged at their hearings that Roe was precedent, and should be afforded the weight that that carries, none specifically committed to refusing to consider overturning it.
THEY DIDNT LIE.
There is.
The problem is that so many of the the left and more progressive voters have somehow persuaded themsleves that continually voting for the least worst candidate is a good idea rather than an inevitable disaster.
They also do one hell of a lot of giving up - everything is impossible and so many reasons why things can't be done so there's no point trying. Sadly the right is far too stupid to realise it.
chez in the USA it is not like in the UK.
if the "real left" splits from the "center left" you don't just get a legislature with the right governing then you are back to elections.
you get supermajorities on the right that can permanently change the country in a way you can never (in a short term) come back from, taking full control of courts which allows them to take full control of redistricting which allows them to take full control of state legislatures and get more bang for their buck of votes and cement their position.
if 10-20% of the "real left" vote "their conscience" in the USA it's GG any dream of any leftism ever governing for 50+ years.
ok the fedposting thing is pretty off the rails. Most of us have been on these forums for long enough to already be retired with a federal pension--it's totally absurd lol
Did anyone read what I actually wrote or are you guys responding to what victor said as if he correctly interpreted what I said? I specifically said that victor is NOT into fedposting— which is why he doesn’t directly advocate for violent revolution. Instead he engaged in stochastic terrorism. He says Oct 7th is justified, he says that Kamala is a genocider, that the US is a genocidal country, that both parties are fundamentally evil and hate us, that Soviet morality is better than Western morality, that Che Guevara is a figure that he admires; in essence he says everything BUT violent revolution is justified. It’s actually quite impressive his ability to dodge what his real position is.
Anyone who knows anything about authoritarian socialism and communism knows what the implications of his statements are. People like Michael Parenti do the same thing, where they advocate for violent authoritarian abroad while being hyper-critical of US domestic and foreign policy. They’ve learned it’s a covert way of radicalizing people.
chez in the USA it is not like in the UK.
if the "real left" splits from the "center left" you don't just get a legislature with the right governing then you are back to elections.
you get supermajorities on the right that can permanently change the country in a way you can never (in a short term) come back from, taking full control of courts which allows them to take full control of redistricting which allows them to take full control of state legislatures and get more bang for their buck of vote
And then Luciom is like “and that’s a good thing so please vote your conscience, leftists” lol
There is.
The problem is that so many of the the left and more progressive voters have somehow persuaded themsleves that continually voting for the least worst candidate is a good idea rather than an inevitable disaster.
They also do one hell of a lot of giving up - everything is impossible and so many reasons why things can't be done so there's no point trying. Sadly the right is far too stupid to realise it.
Well I might of been not precise .
There is no empowerment of the left in the US , far from it .
Better ?
Ps: I suspect there would at least have 1 guy in the US that would lean even commie -> ….ah yes , hi victor !
still no commie in the US politically .
chez in the USA it is not like in the UK.
if the "real left" splits from the "center left" you don't just get a legislature with the right governing then you are back to elections.
you get supermajorities on the right that can permanently change the country in a way you can never (in a short term) come back from, taking full control of courts which allows them to take full control of redistricting which allows them to take full control of state legislatures and get more bang for their buck of vote
It's exactly like the UK. It's like all democracies.
The right are winning because they're not clever enought to realise they can't.
Well I might of been not precise .
There is no empowerment of the left in the US , far from it .
Better ?
Ps: I suspect there would at least have 1 guy in the US that would lean even commie -> ….ah yes , hi victor !
still no commie in the US politically .
Of cousre there's no empowerment. We dont vote for what we want and we explain why we can't change anythign rather than trying to.
We get all the empowerment we deserve.
He was directly responding to my post calling what Luciom said evil by saying “oh yeah bringing in a bunch of the oppressed third world is so evil bud”
You’ll also see on the same page that I said good norms and political rights are necessary for a functioning democracy by mocking me.
He actually is basically fully endorsing what Luciom said as did you so…
Not very good reading comprehension imo. He's just saying it's not evil, but also, the way it's said and then just quoting him (you literally quoted him)? Nah. Lame.
And "as did you"???
No and lol. I don't endorse governments shipping people across borders period. You do though. You endorse governments shipping hard working people who haven't hurt anyone - in fact help people - across borders. That seems....kinda...evil.
Anyone who knows anything about authoritarian socialism and communism knows what the implications of his statements are. People like Michael Parenti do the same thing, where they advocate for violent authoritarian abroad while being hyper-critical of US domestic and foreign policy. They’ve learned it’s a covert way of radicalizing people.
He probably likes Michael Parenti, but you're not really seeing Michael Parenti correctly either. Since you're blinded by partisanship I don't know if it should be easier or harder for you to recognize other people also blinded by partisanship. Parenti is wildly over-forgiving of authoritarians generally regarded as leftist (imo authoritarianism is antithetical to what really being on the left is, but semantics). Same way you are so over-forgiving of the Dumbocrats that you expect people to thank them for their service when they deport or bomb people. Both of you actually want your side to be all good. It's not like Luciom, who has come to terms with the implications of what he supports and just says "other people? **** 'em".
He probably likes Michael Parenti, but you're not really seeing Michael Parenti correctly either. Since you're blinded by partisanship I don't know if it should be easier or harder for you to recognize other people also blinded by partisanship.
Harder I think. It's like the joke with the fish where they're like "what the hell is water!?".
Of cousre there's no empowerment. We dont vote for what we want and we explain why we can't change anythign rather than trying to.
We get all the empowerment we deserve.
obviously more country are more empowered by left and others right policies.
nothing leftish in the US.
ie:
healthcare cost amazingly high, not universal.
education is ridiculous too.
unions % are incredibly low
low taxation .
democrats are far closer to mainstream center right then anything leftish.
Not very good reading comprehension imo. He's just saying it's not evil, but also, the way it's said and then just quoting him (you literally quoted him)? Nah. Lame.
And "as did you"???
No and lol. I don't endorse governments shipping people across borders period. You do though. You endorse governments shipping hard working people who haven't hurt anyone - in fact help people - across borders. That seems....kinda...evil.
I’m fine with people coming here for work. In fact I support expanding our trade agreement with Mexico and Canada to include more temporary worker programs. I don’t support awarding illegal immigrants by automatically granting them citizenship just for violating our country’s border laws. I definitely support barring people from immigrating when they use illegal ports of entry. These aren’t crazy far right positions.
He probably likes Michael Parenti, but you're not really seeing Michael Parenti correctly either. Since you're blinded by partisanship I don't know if it should be easier or harder for you to recognize other people also blinded by partisanship. Parenti is wildly over-forgiving of authoritarians generally regarded as leftist (imo authoritarianism is antithetical to what really being on the left is, but semantics). Same way you are so over-forgiving of the Dumbocrats that you expect people to t
If I was blinded by partisanship, why would I be on the record criticizing many Democratic policies or proposals? Unlike you I don’t view politicians as being locked into my very narrow view of what a good politician is. I don’t particularly like centrist democrats but I vote for them because they are usually better than the Republican they are running for. And if I have the chance to vote for the more leftist candidate in a jungle primary where top two move on and it’s only a choice between two democrats, I will. I’m not a Democratic party loyalist.
Edit: By that I mean the Democratic establishment.
I’m fine with people coming here for work. In fact I support expanding our trade agreement with Mexico and Canada to include more temporary worker programs. I don’t support awarding illegal immigrants by automatically granting them citizenship just for violating our country’s border laws. I definitely support barring people from immigrating when they use illegal ports of entry. These aren’t crazy far right positions.
Relative to the current American population those positions aren't crazy far right. Right or left, if someone comes here to help themselves and their family and actually helps the people here as well, and a cop comes and arrests them and sends them anyway, that's evil as far as I'm concerned. And I don't think you have the right to do it just because you were born somewhere they weren't into a country that just annexed that place by force. Just because everything around you is saying it's normal and legal doesn't make it right.
If I was blinded by partisanship, why would I be on the record criticizing many Democratic policies or proposals? Unlike you I don’t view politicians as being locked into my very narrow view of what a good politician is. I don’t particularly like centrist democrats but I vote for them because they are usually better than the Republican they are running for. And if I have the chance to vote for the more leftist candidate in a jungle primary where top two move on and it’s only a choice between two
You could have fooled me. The only thing I know about you is what you type in these word boxes and I'm not looking up quotes, but if anyone else criticizes the Dumbocrats you seem to jump to calling them some kind of Stalinist or Trump supporter. Maybe if people say their pledge of allegiance to the Dembocratic Party enough you allow them to say something critical?
You could have fooled me. The only thing I know about you is what you type in these word boxes and I'm not looking up quotes, but if anyone else criticizes the Dumbocrats you seem to jump to calling them some kind of Stalinist or Trump supporter. Maybe if people say their pledge of allegiance to the Dembocratic Party enough you allow them to say something critical?
That might be what you see from your perspective, but from my perspective that’s not what’s going on. From my perspective there is an extremely consequential election coming up in a little more than a week and people are acting like it’s the same ol same ol political theater. This is not political theater, elections have consequences. 2016 should have told you that. Anyone interested in normal leftist or center left politics should be able to see that with moral clarity. It’s simply not the case that right wingers take power and the next election a far leftist comes in and rises to the top.
In fact it was only after 8 years of Obama that people like Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders were considered as viable contenders for the top of the ticket. It’s just not viable to disengage from the Democratic party and expect something better to come in its place. It simply IS a two party system and anyone that denies that is shooting themselves and all Americans in the foot.
On top of that, I believe Trump is a dangerous person who has proved himself dangerous. And this whole idea that the danger can be paved over because he inherited a good economy from Obama is ludicrous.
So it only appears that I’m some Democratic party agent because the conversation that is germane to me right now is whether or not we’re going to have four more years of Trump or four years of Kamala. That’s not blind partisanship that’s clarity about what the choice we have as Americans is on election day.
Relative to the current American population those positions aren't crazy far right. Right or left, if someone comes here to help themselves and their family and actually helps the people here as well, and a cop comes and arrests them and sends them anyway, that's evil as far as I'm concerned. And I don't think you have the right to do it just because you were born somewhere they weren't into a country that just annexed that place by force. Just because everything around you is saying it's nor
Yeah I agree on an individual level, for sure. But the problem comes in when there is a high amount of crossings and no screening. On the whole illegal immigrants have been positive contributors to society though so I’m not maligning them as a group or saying they are poisoning the blood of our nation.
However you have to admit that for those immigrants that go about it the right way, it’s unfair to them to just ignore that people are circumventing the process that they went through all the legal steps for. We shouldn’t legislate solely based on feelings though. This country had quite a few periods of high immigration and resulting xenophobia and we turned out ok.
But also there’s something you have to realize, which is that those Haitian migrants that Trump slandered are here as a result of a program expanded by Biden. That right there is a direct illustration how the thing you supposedly care about is directly implicated by who would be the next president. You’re voting against Kamala based on a law that you can still fight to prevent being passed after she is elected. Whereas that executive action that made those refugees legal is something that can be rescinded by Trump on day 1.
