2024 ELECTION THREAD
The next presidential race will be here soon! Please see current Bovada odds. Thoughts?
That might be what you see from your perspective, but from my perspective that’s not what’s going on. From my perspective there is an extremely consequential election coming up in a little more than a week and people are acting like it’s the same ol same ol political theater. This is not political theater, elections have consequences. 2016 should have told you that. Anyone interested in normal leftist or center left politics should be able to see that with moral clarity. It’s simply not the case
Maybe you don't realize how unimportant the words we put in these word boxes are. I would submit that the people posting and acting like you are far less likely to influence anyone in the way you might hope than someone who comes across less insanely partisan does, but, the posts here aren't affecting the election and no one cares who pledges allegiance unless they are looking to line the losers up against a wall at some point. You are allowed to think and say that Obummer was the deporter in chief or Hillary was a freaking horrible Secretary of State AND to say that Trump is a straight up Hitler loving fascist - or at least to see someone say that and talk about it without calling them Stalin.
Great. It's an important election. Duh. Keep in mind that like three people max are ever going to fully read any post you make that contains more than three sentences.
Yeah I agree on an individual level, for sure. But the problem comes in when there is a high amount of crossings and no screening. On the whole illegal immigrants have been positive contributors to society though so I’m not maligning them as a group or saying they are poisoning the blood of our nation.
However you have to admit that for those immigrants that go about it the right way, it’s unfair to them to just ignore that people are circumventing the process that they went through all the legal
I've argued itt that Trump is worse than Kopmala on immigration.
It being unfair to people who waited in line does not affect my position. I understand the feeling, but people doing extra work to make sure they aren't mistreated horribly doesn't make me feel like it's ok to horribly treat people because they didn't do that extra work.
Trump is worse. Dunno if saying that is enough to keep myself from being put up against a wall if Kamala wins, but I'm going to tell you what really pissed me off about Biden. Trump enacted the heinous Title 42, which kept many tens of thousands and maybe even more than a hundred thousand people on the Southern side of the US/Mexico border waiting to apply for asylum or visa or whatever. Biden, and other Dumbocrats, talked a bunch about how awful and inhumane that was and Biden was going to undo executive order. Well, the day he undid that executive order he issued the one saying no asylum applications from anyone who crossed into a third country to apply. A hundred thousand people waiting there, having already walked from Guatemala or Venezuela or w/e, now told that they could not apply. The supposedly inhumane order, which was by nature temporary - having to do with COVID, was replaced by one with a more permanent nature.
What a bastard.
Maybe you don't realize how unimportant the words we put in these word boxes are. I would submit that the people posting and acting like you are far less likely to influence anyone in the way you might hope than someone who comes across less insanely partisan does, but, the posts here aren't affecting the election and no one cares who pledges allegiance unless they are looking to line the losers up against a wall at some point. You are allowed to think and say that Obummer was the deporter in
lol you actually think I post here as a form of political activism? I just post here because I enjoy arguing. Not to say anything I say is false, but if I didn’t get enjoyment out of debate I wouldn’t do it
At this point I really don’t see how Trump can lose and that’s the Dems own fault for running the worst candidate they’ve ever had. Which is saying a lot considering they are the party that once nominating Hillary Clinton [emoji23]
NYT: Advisers Propose That Trump Give Security Clearances Without F.B.I. Vetting
A memo circulating among at least half a dozen advisers to former President Donald J. Trump recommends that if he is elected, he bypass traditional background checks by law enforcement officials and immediately grant security clearances to a large number of his appointees after being sworn in, according to three people briefed on the matter.
The proposal is being promoted by a small group including Boris Epshteyn, a top legal adviser to Mr. Trump who was influential in its development, according to the three people.
It is not clear whether Mr. Trump has seen the proposal or whether he is inclined to adopt it if he takes office.
But it would allow him to quickly install loyalists in major positions without subjecting them to the risk of long-running and intrusive F.B.I. background checks, potentially increasing the risks of people with problematic histories or ties to other nations being given influential White House roles. Such checks hung up clearances for a number of aides during Mr. Trump’s presidency, including Mr. Trump’s son-in-law Jared Kushner and Mr. Epshteyn himself.
The proposal suggests using private-sector investigators and researchers to perform background checks on Mr. Trump’s intended appointees during the transition, cutting out the role traditionally played by F.B.I. agents, the three people said. Once Mr. Trump took the oath, he would then summarily approve a large group for access to classified secrets, they said.
Asked about the proposal, Steven Cheung, a spokesman for the Trump campaign, responded with an attack on Vice President Kamala Harris, saying she and Democrats “have weaponized the Department of Justice to attack President Trump and his supporters” and that Mr. Trump would use “the full powers of the presidency” to build his administration starting on Inauguration Day.
A number of Mr. Trump’s advisers — and the former president himself — have long viewed background checks for security clearances with deep suspicion.
Mr. Epshteyn, who was indicted earlier this year in Arizona in connection with a so-called fake electors scheme to upend Mr. Trump’s 2020 loss and has two prior arrests in that state, speaks with Mr. Trump multiple times a day and is one of his most influential aides.
Source:
Fascists gonna fasc
obviously more country are more empowered by left and others right policies.
nothing leftish in the US.
ie:
healthcare cost amazingly high, not universal.
education is ridiculous too.
unions % are incredibly low
low taxation .
democrats are far closer to mainstream center right then anything leftish.
As we often discussed, this is only true for economic topics.
At this point I really don’t see how Trump can lose and that’s the Dems own fault for running the worst candidate they’ve ever had. Which is saying a lot considering they are the party that once nominating Hillary Clinton [emoji23]
It's way too early for this kind of talk. We're still at the point where she is the greatest and the only way to save democracy. The day after the election is when we will all claim to have never liked her in the first place or thought she could win.
Yes, your contention is wrong.
only uses non partisan polls and they have Harris winning the tipping point state by .1. Pretty much as close to a flip as you can get.
I have been looking more closely at votehub because it was an aggregator I had never seen before, and I was intrigued. However, I was disappointed to see that they include atlas Intel polls which I specifically don't include because of their link sharing vulnerability.
Any opt in online polls are completely useless because, at a base level, the sample is not nearly random enough, and will likely be gamed by paying the link in partisan spaces.
You just can't include stuff like that and expect good results.
The Electoral College isn't worth saving
Kamala Harris and Donald Trump remain frustratingly close in poll after poll,
opening the door to a world where he wins the popular vote
but still loses the Electoral College and the presidency
the Electoral College that Alexander Hamilton envisioned,
one where “‘there will be a constant probability of seeing the station filled by
characters pre-eminent for ability and virtue,’ has basically never operated as designed
Voters on Election Day are really selecting either Democratic or Republican
electors who’ve promised to cast their vote for their respective party’s nominee.
It’s a convoluted practice that adds an unnecessary layer between the people and the presidency.
there are so many curving byways and nooks and crannies in the
Electoral College that there are opportunities for a lot of strategic mischief.
Steam it's not about "saving" it, it's the current arrangement, at most people can claim it's worth it to try to change it.
GL trying to change it, meanwhile that's how the rules are.
Everyone is using math to adjust for the sad fact that normal people don’t take surveys.
Every year, polling gets tougher.
Challenge #1: Almost nobody wants to talk to pollsters — and those who do might be weirdos.
Challenge #2: We have to model our way around the fact that nobody talks to us.
Challenge #3: Elections are closer than ever, so “the polls” will almost certainly be “wrong.”
Trump's hate rally
rally at New York's Madison Square Garden on Sunday where allies made crude and racist remarks,
The two weeks before the election are always so predictable in this thread. The dumbest of the hyper-partisans on both sides abandon all concern for facts or logic. The progressives imply that Democrats bear most of the responsibility for the rise and perpetuation of Trumpism. The people who think that they transcended two party politics announce that they are going to vote for a third-party candidate that is totally unprepared (and usually unsuited) to actually be president. Victor puts his robust nihilism on display by seeming to root for the outcome that he probably knows is worse for the country, despite denying that he is doing so.
The two weeks before the election are always so predictable in this thread. The dumbest of the hyper-partisans on both sides abandon all concern for facts or logic. The progressives imply that Democrats bear most of the responsibility for the rise and perpetuation of Trumpism. The people who think that they transcended two party politics announce that they are going to vote for a third-party candidate that is totally unprepared (and usually unsuited) to actually be president. Victor puts his
Do you think betting odds are correct directionally, in that Trump chances appear to be better than they were in august, or you think it's all noise and it's just the same coinflip it "always was", or something else?
The two weeks before the election are always so predictable in this thread. The dumbest of the hyper-partisans on both sides abandon all concern for facts or logic. The progressives imply that Democrats bear most of the responsibility for the rise and perpetuation of Trumpism. The people who think that they transcended two party politics announce that they are going to vote for a third-party candidate that is totally unprepared (and usually unsuited) to actually be president. Victor puts his
no I def think Dems losing is the best for the country and world.
and fwiw, I did vote for Biden.
no I def think Dems losing is the best for the country and world.
and fwiw, I did vote for Biden.
Because you think Trump will be a better president in the short term or because you think Trump will accelerate making things worse, which is a prerequisite for your preferred politics rising from the ashes?
Either way, you should vote for Trump if that is what you believe.
I have to agree with this. The country needs to reach a new low before it and the world can start moving in the right direction again. I don't think people realize the low we'll actually reach in the next four years but it's unfortunately the necessary medicine for the cure.
Do you think betting odds are correct directionally, in that Trump chances appear to be better than they were in august, or you think it's all noise and it's just the same coinflip it "always was", or something else?
Trump's odds are better than they were in the immediate wake of Kamala replacing Biden. That isn't because Kamala has been ****ing up or Trump has been amazing. It's just that the wave of enthusiasm that followed Biden stepping down was bound to crest before the election.
I have to agree with this. The country needs to reach a new low before it and the world can start moving in the right direction again. I don't think people realize the low we'll actually reach in the next four years but it's unfortunately the necessary medicine for the cure.
It's hard to claim that life in 2019 was worse for americans than life in 2012, to the point not even the most partisan democrats try to campaign on that.
Some try to use the bottom numbers reached with covid lockdowns to blame trump for that, but no one i have ever heard of uses the non-covid trump years as an example of the "new low" people should vote to avoid, becase trump years (for whatever reasons) , the non covid ones, were objectively a lot better for the vast majority of people.
So why do you think this time things will go in a completly different way, if trump wins?
What do you think is going to happen in 2025-26-27 , with trump president, that will show americans they made a terrible mistake?
Because you think Trump will be a better president in the short term or because you think Trump will accelerate making things worse, which is a prerequisite for your preferred politics rising from the ashes?
I am not sure that Trump will be appreciably worse. the fact is the Dems have moved extremely far right domestically and refuse to pursue any slightly progressive initiatives.
I have to agree with this. The country needs to reach a new low before it and the world can start moving in the right direction again. I don't think people realize the low we'll actually reach in the next four years but it's unfortunately the necessary medicine for the cure.
You also should vote for Trump rather than waste your vote on some third party.
The two weeks before the election are always so predictable in this thread. The dumbest of the hyper-partisans on both sides abandon all concern for facts or logic. The progressives imply that Democrats bear most of the responsibility for the rise and perpetuation of Trumpism. The people who think that they transcended two party politics announce that they are going to vote for a third-party candidate that is totally unprepared (and usually unsuited) to actually be president. Victor puts his
I've voted for every Dem nominee since Adalai Stevenson and I will not vote for Harris!
