2024 ELECTION THREAD

they no longer think that gender affirming care is a right. it was removed from the platform and Kamala refused to support it when asked directly. instead she said it was up to the laws and doctors.

Absolutely not 90%+. And no it's not "normal people". It's a specific technocratic centre-left coalition. Japanese leaders don't hate Trump for example and don't love that coalition

When I say "hate" in this context I am talking about thinking he is a charmless, uncouth buffoon who is unpleasant to be around and basically have zero respect for him as a person. Again, for the 5th or so time, I am not talking about their attitudes towards his policies. The original contention was that he is respected on the world stage, and that is what I am challenging.

It's not exactly right even though I do like to say "abolish the police" a lot. I submit that police and prisons cause more problems than they prevent in the USofA, but that's not necessarily meaning complete abolition is optimal.

I'm not sure if you're saying the right falls in line or if you're saying that center-leftists say the right falls in line. But the right doesn't fall in line (well it mostly does, but not more than the left which also mostly falls in line) of course. Right leaning third parties/independents got significantly more votes in 2020 than left leaning third parties/independents.

What makes you think that what you write isn't the norm for everyone? what makes you think that say Merkel is or was appreciated for "individual character" and not for her horrific pro-globalism policies, by pro-globalism people?

What makes you think in general the world of top-echelon political leader is anything but a fully selfish rational cut-throath competition for resources and actual power? why do you even imagine there are actual "human relationships" among them? tv shows?

Of course I'm powerless or essentially powerless in national elections. That brings to mind another way in which a lot of people actually do select who they are going to vote for. Some people actually do vote for who they think is going to win. I'm not making that up right? We've all seen that?

I do think the right falls in line, when the enemy is horrific. Biden wasn't actually horrific (for moderates, center-right people and so on). Biden was actually a pretty decent candidate, i never denied that, very capable of capturing what would have otherwise been rightwing base voters: uneducated whites. Not that much for the under 40 or the under 50, but among seniors? Biden was one of the best democrat candidates in decades for white seniors without a college degree.

And the biden campaign in 2020 was reaaally smart: they spent a zillion $$$ on ultra-basic ads about social security and medicare, using (twisting a bit) republican voices that put those in danger. They won on very basic elements of politics because the right needs an actual crazy , frenzied radical as an enemy to fall in line.

Harris is that enemy. Ofc Harris still has a chance to win to be clear because Trump is a terrible candidate. But the right is falling in line this time.

Dunno man, I have this crazy notion that I can competently judge that most normal people would find someone like Trump entirely unlikeable, and this appears to be backed up by evidence that most normal people do in fact find him entirely unlikeable. I have no idea about how Merkel behaves in public, but if it's anything like Trump, I'd imagine that most normal people would find her entirely unlikeable too.

I don't understand what you're arguing. Do you need me to list off the traits that make Trump a monumentally shitty person whom most normal people wouldn't respect or something? I'm sure you know what they are.

Harris does better (relatively) with old people and Biden did better with young people. Biden does do better with non-college graduates.

Of course third parties may work out better for Trump in this election since Kennedy dropped out (yeah, I contend that he would have taken more Trump votes than Harris votes).

Modi is the elected leader of the most populated democracy in the history of the world

Or maybe not. Chase may well get more votes than Stein and West put together.

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/49...

Yes it is a crazy notion given he has been around the "public sphere" for many decades, and the most powerful and important people around the world lined up to have Trump at their events, including the Clinton family.

Trump has been one of the most liked personalities in the USA for a long time. And you know that. It's like his one basic and maybe only skill

Aside from the fact that this was probably the best pro-harris poll in the last 3 months, where is the "white uneducated over 50" which i was talking about here?

I agree he would have , after Biden dropped out

Jorgensen, the libertarian, got 1.9 million votes in 2020.

This time, you've got Cornel West and Jill Stein

Pretty sure that anyone who knew him at all on a personal level even before he entered politics has said he's been a total ******* all his life and something of an outcast in exactly the circles you're alluding to. The guy was ****ing loaded, of course he had some sort of social circle, but I imagine that the people "lining up" to have him at their events had some financial interest in his attending those events, and he wasn't being invited for his charm, charisma, and good humour. The man doesn't have any friends, nobody could tolerate him for long enough to form any sort of close personal relationship with him, apart from his gold-digging wives of course.

Anyway, a lot of people can be likeable and easy-going when they're younger and turn into real ****s as they age. Hence the cantankerous old man/woman stereotype. There's probably an element of that here too.

I follow american libertarian twitter a lot for obvious reasons and there are many more voices telling people to "fall in line" and vote Trump this round than in 2020 and especially than in 2016

I’m not a part of a tribe, the democrats are a vehicle for my political views. I don’t defend them when they do things I don’t like.

Other analysis is correct.

Other thing I would say is that aside from partisan politics, the populist left and right both function to hurt the general epistemic practices of the nation. The right is worse in that respect, but that’s only because they are bigger. This is separate from any normative positions that they might hold that I might agree with but believe are held without justification.

There were many people more loaded than him that always had just a small fraction of the social circle Trump enjoyed for decades

Through choice. With that sort of money, you can buy your way into most places. Ironically, not the one place he always wanted to buy his way into, which is Hollywood. All the A-listers always hated him and saw him for who he was, and didn't need or want his money.

If you were like, say, germany, center left and center right would have a close to permanent majority and would govern togheter with the fringes kept at bay (imagine proportional representation).

You system is very weird (but i think it works, for now, very well tbh), but it has some weaknesses which could be exploited. We already discussed how some stuff should NOT be change-able with simple majority vote.

That's the only thing I had that compared ages and Harris v Biden. Can't get everything you want.