2024 ELECTION THREAD

schiff is a sociopath, he doesn’t actually believe it. he is using manipulation tactics on normies.

guy is a skinwalker, **** him.

Honestly just can’t come up with a scenario where McCarthy keeps his job at this point

probably just because they thought it was funny and wanted to believe it. I actually think there is way more evidence for the dossier though than the insane “michael obama” schizophrenia that Republicans believe

One of the things it said was that Russia was going to interfere in the 2016 election with the goal of aiding Trump and reducing faith in A,erican elections which happened.

I agree that Oprah should have picked Quayle as the VP candidate

Yes but this should have been obvious since about 2012 where Romney was talking about Russia being a huge threat to American hegemony and was laughed at by Obama. and the problem with intel agency disinfo is that they will combine facts with falsehoods to control public perception, which makes it hard to understand what is real and what is fake.

but I mean the policy of using western institutions against itself was already well underway with wikileaks and RT (using journalism as a way of spreading chaos). the key about Russia is that they don’t actually support Trump for any reason other than he’s a chaos agent. interior chaos hurts American foreign policy.

The question isn't whether people believed it .. it's whether those who did were serious people. And not the trademarked "very serious people" but actual serious people

Romney was right in 2012 for the same reason democrats were wrong more recently.

Reasons Obama wisely understood in his second term.

Russian role in world geopolitics diminished catastrophically since the USA adopted shale extraction techniques at a large scale (coupled with the emerging renewable energy development trend).

Russia was far more relevant in the past than it is now (or was already in 2016).

Crimea was an act of desperation by a country that felt existentially it had a clock on its relevance. and it has been downhill since then.

Russia was already a joke in 2016 and is even less today. yes they can still stir some trouble with neighbors and yes they have nuclear weapons so of they go psycho it's a problem but that's true of north korea as well.

I'm sure some people believed it. Some people believe anything. I didn't believe it.

Clinton paid for it and Schiff promoted it any chance he had for years.

it's not some insignificant weirdos on the fringes.

it was a DNC sponsored attempt

No. I wouldn't say it was a general rule.

In this case I was just using it as a useful yardstick to help those confused about the issue. That's all.

The whole Russia collusion story was based on a false rumour instigated by the Clinton campaign using the totally fabricated Steele dossier. Therefore if there were no convictions after a two year high level investigation you can safely assume that the whole thing was a hoax.

I imagine it's the only thing out there that Playbig doesn't believe.

I mean people believed the dossier as much as people believed Vance ****s couches

It’s almost certainly untrue but I’m still gonna make jokes

I disagree, I think Russia has the largest and most effective disinfo operation in the world. Look at the recent Tenet media scandal and prosecution of other Russian media fronts. And in fact they brought Tucker Carlson in to do wartime propaganda to an audience of tens of millions of American dumbass conservatives.

And even up to the Ukraine-Russia war, Europe had a high degree of energy dependence on them.

Just in general your thesis doesn’t line up with reality. If anything this idea of Russia being weak and not responsible for anything is another propaganda piece of Russia. And the thing about Russian propaganda is they don’t need people to be directly watching it to be influenced by it.

Anyway I’m not going to get into this argument with you because it’s just not interesting. If Russia has a big influence then you have to tread lightly because most average liberals don’t understand how it works. If Russia doesn’t have influence then arguing about their influence only serves their goals. It’s a lose-lose for me.

But on the post 2012 side of things, Russia is still a big influencer in the ME with Iran and Syria, and are our primary rivals in that region. That’s why they promote American isolationism. It’s not because they think Trump is weak, they just like his policies for them. Weaken NATO, weaken EU. The thing they miscalculated was that Trump brought on a bunch of neocons so even though he talked about ending wars he ended up doing a bunch of drone strikes and sanctioning Russia anyway. So there is certainly evidence that even if the Trump campaign worked with Russia, the institutions were strong enough that he only did damage, he didn’t destroy our foreign policy.

The important part I’m getting at is that the vast majority of people who believed it were normies who just thought it was funny that Russia had a pee tape on Trump. They didn’t believe it in the sense of knowing what it was or what it said, just that they thought parts of it were funny.

Got it. We can draw conclusions in the one case, but not in the other cases. I understand how it works now.

There are a lot of things that are funny to contemplate but which are very unlikely to be true.

Now that I think about it, I don't believe that I ever read the Steele dossier, so I don't know if there is stuff in there that I would rate as more likely to be true than not. I just read the reporting about the most salacious allegations, which I rated as very unlikely to be true.

this is the first time they (538) have gone out and said trump is in the lead

I am actually surprised. I guess there is data that trump is doing better than we all thought in PA.

still a coinflip but would shapiro had made this easier? I think silver is right on that regardless if she wins

I am stil super pissed I didnt buy Harris when she was at 32/34 cents tho
was great value
still think her at 43c is decent value too tho

Well no, you still don't get it. It depends on the circumstances of each particular case. The circumstances are that this case was based on a proven lie. Couple that with the fact that no-one was even charged let alone convicted then the conclusion that it was a hoax is a valid one.

Hope that helps with your confusion.

I think owning a business would be insane and not fun at all doubt we have business owners here since most people are smart enough to not really try to own one and instead work for oursleves via a own boss type deal like consulting. I never thought about owning a business with employees but I also dont want everyone to have the same thoughts.

I do at times think if you own a business that voting democrat is kinda like punting on 3 and 5 tho

the actual meme is the opposite one by Colin which is the real one, and the objectively measurable one.

just hear Bill Clinton talking about illegal immigrants or just realize what the democratic party did about "trans rights" in 1995 (absolutely nothing as no one gave a **** about them at all) to admit it's obviously, objectively true that the move left was insane while the right is actually A LOT more moderate than it was when Goldwater was around.

Whatever happens, I have a very hard time believing Shapiro would have mattered

I think kamala made the right call picking the most unoffensive running mate possible who also carried the folksy good ol boy flyover **** biden had

Kamala’s biggest blue wall liability is Gaza, and, and it sucks to say this, I have a hard time believing a Jewish running mate helps that problem. Maybe shapiro helps deliver pennsyvania but I honest believe he loses Michigan

the important part is that democratic leadership pushed the dossier all chances it had, while it was complete fabrication *which they themselves fabricated on purpose* paying for it.

it was literally an hoax.