Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
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30588 Replies
After reading more about the Amsterdam incident it sounds like there was plenty of antisemitism on display.
that still doesnt make the Israeli narrative correct. its quite obv this was retaliation for the Maccabi hooligans doing some heinous and violent stuff and not a pogrom or an ambush.
theres also a ton of fake news and videos out there so be careful what you believe.
hmm, i wonder
that still doesnt make the Israeli narrative correct. its quite obv this was retaliation for the Maccabi hooligans doing some heinous and violent stuff and not a pogrom or an ambush.
theres also a ton of fake news and videos out there so be careful what you believe.
I’m going off reporting from the BBC.
This part is ridiculous because of course all these things are connected. The violence just isn’t justified by it.:
Asked about video footage appearing to show Maccabi fans in Amsterdam chanting offensive slogans, Mayor Halsema said: "What happened last night has nothing to do with protest. There is no excuse for what happened."
On the other hand, I have no reason to doubt this:
"We faced around 20 people who ran towards us. They asked me where I was from, and I said I was from Greece. They said they didn’t believe me and they asked to see my passport.
When he told them he didn't have it, the men beat him, pushed him to the ground and kicked his face, Mr Tshuva said.
"I don’t remember anything after that, and I woke up in an ambulance with blood all over my face, and realised they had broken two of my teeth."
British men Aaron and Jacob, who are Jewish, told the BBC they went to the match, but left early.
Afterwards, they said they saw men yelling antisemitic threats and stamping on an Israeli man. They intervened, helped the man to his feet, and went to leave.
Shortly after, a group asked the men if they were Jewish, and Aaron said that they were British.
“But they said ‘you helped the Jew’, and he punched me in my face and broke my glasses," Aaron said.
“I was bleeding and have a black eye. I’m okay but a bit shaken."
It's hard to think of nationalities with similar political stuff going on but...
Imagine racist Hooligans from... idk, Brazil, came to a match in the US. They chant death to Mexicans during a moment of silence for 9/11. Go around tearing Mexican flags from peoples homes. Sing songs about killing Mexican kids. Beat up and harrass random Mexicans.
Finally, some Mexican guys kick the crap out of them and express hostility to Brazilians.
Imagine believing this was an example of anti-Brazilian bigotry.
today really shows the contrast between what the media tells us , the president's statements and what really happened .
they are painting the hooligans as victims of hate crimes and how it was all antisemitism while basically ignoring what led up to the violence . heads of states are calling this horrifying while there were zero deaths ,yet on the other side of the coin ,IDF probably killed another 20 women and children today.
The worst off are the local Jewish community.
This kind of rhetoric grates on Ziljstra, the community organizer whose Instagram post went viral. He has been frustrated by an insistence on the left that violence against the Israelis was justified — and by politicians like Wilders who are stripping the attacks of context to push an agenda that most of the country’s Jews don’t support.
“I really think that we should try to stay sane and not allow our pain and trauma to be weaponized like this,” he said.
today really shows the contrast between what the media tells us , the president's statements and what really happened .
they are painting the hooligans as victims of hate crimes and how it was all antisemitism while basically ignoring what led up to the violence . heads of states are calling this horrifying while there were zero deaths ,yet on the other side of the coin ,IDF probably killed another 20 women and children today.
It's amazing to watch it in real time. Like, there is video of it all over the internet, including the Dutch police saying what really happened.
Then you see the MSM and politicians carrying on as if it doesn't exist.
That's normal now, particularly with the etnic cleansing as a whole. But I think this is a much more finite, black and white event. An organization of militant racists harassed and attacked people on video for days and then their victims fought back. Incredibly simple story. Thoroughly documented.
MSN and politicians: the truth is the exact opposite of that.
The worst off are the local Jewish community.
first they came for the football hooligans, and everyone said hell yeah
every sentence is more unbelievable than the last. and I mean that in the sense that I personally do not believe a word of this article.
If the justice department has somehow been convinced to fabricate this for Trump then that does not bode well for Iran imo.
If the justice department has somehow been convinced to fabricate this for Trump then that does not bode well for Iran imo.
It does seem like a strange story. A common burglar is part of some shadowy criminal conspiracy that does murders for hire for Iran? What were some of those previous murderers? How do we know this guy isn't some crackpot? People often gibve false confessions that they are The Zodiac Killer or whatever.
Victor and others go off the rails too much, but... remember Iraqi soldiers ripping babies from incubators, wmds, Havana syndrome, 40 beheaded babies. Heck, look what we are seeing today. Some racist Isreali Hooligans terrorized and beat up people who then fought back and it's a Pogram.
I'd like to see real evidence.
As you said, it's way early to tell how valid this story is. Regardless it is big news that this is happening.
often I see people parroting the talking point that many of dead listed as children are actually teenage combatants. the people asserting this never show any evidence and now we have direct evidence to the contrary.
Assuming the reports of the dead children are true the big question is why are they were the bombs are dropping? Certainly good parents would do everything they can to keep them out of harms way. Are they just bad parents? I suspect more of theses "dead children" are in fact helping the enemy. I suspect that Hamas is making sure they are at or near where the bombs are dropping. If Palestinians wanted to keep their children safe they could do it. The big problem here is that these are people who celebrate death. Is it possible that their hatred toward Israel surpasses their love of their children? If Americans or Israelis were the ones living in Gaza I bet the death toll would be far less assuming the same amount of bombing.
The reality is "They're killing our children" has always been the propaganda of the "Palestinians". When Israel would be attacked the headlines would read "24 Israelis killed". When the "Palestinians" were attacked the headlines would read "24 "Palestinians" were killed including 10 children.
I suspect that the number of children killed is greatly exaggerated or taken out of context.
its not my stats. its from the BBC article that jal linked.
It does seem like a strange story. A common burglar is part of some shadowy criminal conspiracy that does murders for hire for Iran? What were some of those previous murderers? How do we know this guy isn't some crackpot? People often gibve false confessions that they are The Zodiac Killer or whatever.
Victor and others go off the rails too much, but... remember Iraqi soldiers ripping babies from incubators, wmds, Havana syndrome, 40 beheaded babies. Heck, look what we are seeing today. Some
You are just as bad as Victor in peddling antisemetic propaganda. In quality if not quantity. This post is case in point.
After doing some investigating into the Amsterdam incident it appears the violence was caused by Islamic immigrants. It's true that some Israelis made anti "Palestine" chants and pulled down Palestinian flags. Unfortunately it was the Islamists who were the violent ones. They set up check points and asked people they suspected of being Jewish for their passports. If they thought they were Jewish they physically assaulted them. Israelis quickly rallied and came to the defense of the innocent victims. The Islamists ran like cowards.
It does seem like a strange story. A common burglar is part of some shadowy criminal conspiracy that does murders for hire for Iran? What were some of those previous murderers? How do we know this guy isn't some crackpot? People often gibve false confessions that they are The Zodiac Killer or whatever.
Victor and others go off the rails too much, but... remember Iraqi soldiers ripping babies from incubators, wmds, Havana syndrome, 40 beheaded babies. Heck, look what we are seeing today. Some
It's the Israeli folks who were getting beaten up. The videos you are seeing are when more Israelis showed up to save their friends.
its not my stats. its from the BBC article that jal linked.
It is a BBC regurgitation of UN 'stats,' and the UN has zero integrity and nothing from it should be trusted.
That being said, even these numbers are from a handpicked sample of 8,119 casualties. Lets say there are ~40,000 casualties, which may be real, I dont knw. That means they cherrypicked 20% to construct their argument. I can cherrypick 20% of any sample to fabricate any argument. I could probably "prove" Kamala Harris swept the Electoral College doing this.
why do you say it was cherrypicked and not a random sample?
It's amazing to watch it in real time. Like, there is video of it all over the internet, including the Dutch police saying what really happened.
Then you see the MSM and politicians carrying on as if it doesn't exist.
That's normal now, particularly with the etnic cleansing as a whole. But I think this is a much more finite, black and white event. An organization of militant racists harassed and attacked people on video for days and then their victims fought back. Incredibly simple story. Th
It appears soccer hooligans were acting like hooligans. The more violent side chose violence again.
Why does Europe allow this barbarism? You would neve see such displays at an American sporting event.
