Moderation Questions

This is where you and Sam Harris (and you and I) part ways. He was making a case that he could understand why some people voted for Trump, but he certainly wasn't saying he agreed with their decision. In the second part of the same video he made a very eloquent case for why Trumpism is a danger and how it has already degraded democratic norms more than most people, especially conservatives, understand or care to admit. I agree with Sam Harris.

You sir, are correct.

Could you elaborate on why you wouldn't want it for the 22nd?

Is it too unfettered, unregulated, and are those problems with human behavior minimized using a different approach?

I think your point is that we had capitalism during a period of human existence where progression and innovation was needed, but as a result, isn't as useful to mankind in the 22nd and when sustainability and the capabilities to do so are already in motion?

How would it work, exactly?

Man, just say "I'm an embarrassed Republican," this is taking all day.

I’m just surprised that anyone thinks Trump has ever had anything but contempt for the homeless.

There seems to be a prevailing theory in conservative circles that deporting illegals helps the homeless. I'm sure I've heard it mentioned a few times.

That doesn’t rule out Trump thinking they should be hunted for sport though.

If he could get away with it Trump would have all the homeless gunned down or incinerated.

This is a fair point. Rickroll, you keep saying you're a liberal, but the positions you seem to take on most issues are pretty conservative. What is it that makes you a liberal?

The federal government dealing with homelessness is just one of the many violent subversion of the constitution, a denial of basic division of power.

Homelessness is 100% a local problem. States might decide to tackle it at a state level if their state constitution prescribes it, or not, but it's absurd, obscene, disgusting and eversive to discuss the topic at a federal level.

Ofc the last decades were so completely in denial of the basic working of the constitution that federal agencies and committees and whatnot, with 0 power and efficacy but great costs, exist to pretend to address that topic.

But have you guys all collective lost your minds with this continuous, incessant denial of the basic rules of your country?

Isn't it republicans who always use the "why are we spending money on xyz when we have so many homeless on our streets" (usually xyz has something to do with sending money to other countries) argument? Those conservatives love themselves a bit of casual constitutional rape, huh?

Wouldn't illegals be deported anyway if caught, on the grounds that they're illegal, regardless of what anyone believed?

Not sure. Sounds like it depends on who's in charge - if it's democrats then no, if republicans then yes. At least that's what what I inferred from all the rhetoric surrounding their policy positions. Also, I think Trump ran on a platform of actively going out to find them as opposed to just deporting them if they happened to pop up on the radar.

If they're caught committing crimes they get deported regardless though.

Pretty sure homelessness in CA is the opposite of business. It’s actually very bad for business and life in general. The people that are truly invested in the homelessness policies are mostly activists, and they can be defeated democratically quite easily if people are well-informed enough on how to do it.

I meant to say 'wouldn't bet on it'

Very briefly the reasoning is that captialism in the 20th century thrived because people were able to earn wealth from the value they could provide from their labour. That value of labour is evaporating. I'd argue the problem has already begun but by the 22nd century it will be dead and buried.

Communism (still not fan) had the idea that people would provide the value of their labour doing often hard shitty jobs with the state providing anyway. That too looks very different as the value of labour evaporates. We'r'e going to need some means of redistribution and it wont be via the value of our labour with some added tinkering.

actually fentanyl kills some of them, there would be more homelessness without fentanyl around.

fentanyl is a terrible problem but homelessness has other causes.

mainly government corruption as usual, and a refusal to use the necessary state violence to fix it (coupled with the funds that already exist).

Pretty sure it's drug addiction and mental illness that causes most homelessness.

Trolly is exhausted. Again.

From the Ukraine thread. Seems wortthy of being here.

BGP obviously gave his special version of events to the admins before he self-banned, which is frustrating considering the amount of time and energy the mods here dedicated to his complaints.

I’ll keep my opinions about that and the surrounding circumstances to myself since it doesn’t matter anymore. His contributions will be missed.

It's the wrong thread and I won't derail further but communism/socialism and capitalism are kind of archaic terms, and it isn't an either or as they can coexist despite the definitional differences in implications.

A regulated market that prevents exploiting workers and resources while using that revenue to care for everyone else is something that can work in theory and in practice and will have to as the need for labor continues to decrease - we are seeing that already take place. But human beings are simply overrated in their perceived intelligence and capabilities and that corruption we see in a capitalistic society isn't necessarily a function from the exploits of the system but more of the result from unrestricted human behavior. That system has better safeguards at preventing corruption than using a full faith honor system with the same people without those safeguards - because the human greed will always be there.

They are a bit archaic but the point is about redistrubution of wealth. 'Capitalism' uses the value of labour as a basis for that restribution ina competitive market. Whatever you want to call it, that is dying.

If we want democracy (I do) then we need to share wealth without earning it in some form of democratic socialism. Otherwise it will be authoratarianism in some form. Or maybe anarchy ( I'm not agaisnt some forms of that - maybe one day)

I'm not betting against authoratianism taking over.

I'm pretty sure illegal aliens were being deported under Obama . And it's irrelevant if they pip up o a radar or if Trump us more proactive they're illegal illegals get deported if as you say democrats are reluctant to deported illegals then maybe that's one of the reasons they lost in a landslide I still don't understand your comment re republicans believing deportation helps homeless. Their belief is irrelevant. Illegals get deported . That's it.