Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]
There are even more damnng quotes than this but I'm not allowed to post the comparisons one IDF murderer made between the IDF and historic events.
why you leave out this part of the article: "Some of them were convicted by military courts. They felt bitter and betrayed."
Do some soldiers commit crimes? Ofc.
Is it an official policy: No. And if they are caught, they are brought to justice.
kind of refutes your entire point, doesn't it?
No. You should read the rest of the article.
2. A small, ideologically violent group supported the brutality without taking part. They believed in Jewish supremacy and were derogatory toward Arabs. Moral injuries were not reported in this group.
3. A small incorruptible group opposed the influence of the callous and ideological groups on the company's culture. Initially intimidated by brutal commanders, they later took a moral stand and went on to report the atrocities to the division commander. Following discharge, most of them viewed their service as meaningful and strengthening. However, one whistle blower was severely harassed and ostracized, and it was necessary to move him to another unit. He was traumatized, depressed and left the country following discharge.
4. A large group of followers consisted of soldiers with no prior inclination to violence. Their behavior was most influenced by junior officers' modeling and the company's norms. Some followers who committed atrocities reported moral injuries: "I felt like, like, like a xxxxxx
Which group were you in?
That post staying up is definitely the spirit of holidays. People got big vacations for much less.
My point was Deuces and Karl are likely the same person, and he just switched alts when Karl got banned. Of course if you replaced "Zionist" with "Islamist" his post would have been much more true, and I would have received a 30 day ban for it.
There are videos all over the internet of Islamists torturing and killing people for their religious beliefs. They put them up themselves as a source of honor and pride. But we all will just ignore that and bring up an article about something that allegedly happened during the first Infintada, and in bad faith pretend it is talking about what is going on right now.
Anyways, war is very dehumanizing; and what the author is describing is a feature of war, nt some particular deficit of Israelis. And truthfully this is pretty mild stuff compared to how things normally go. Genetic records indicate human history is mostly a long chain of one tribe/population defeating another, killing all the men, and then mating with the women. 100,000 years of that.
Only leftists have such a broken model of the world and poor understanding of humanity and history to even pretend otherwise. And because their model is so broken, following it will invariably make things worse.
Anyways, the main takeaway of the last year is that you cant reason with far leftists. They are too prejudiced and their model of the world is too broken. Better chance trying to reason with a Houthi.
It is just important for sane Americans (and really all Westerners) to defeat far leftists at the ballot box and minimize the damage they inflict on civilization itself.
I think we can call it a wrap when the best argument they have left is "so what, people did genocide thousands of years ago too"
I can attest to seeing crimes committed by IDF soldiers and for some that I have committed myself. No atrocities like you are claiming, but crimes, nonetheless.
For instance, I stole Hash from a house in Hebron and weed in Ramallah.
I saw a soldier steal a knife and some items from a dead body (he was court marshaled and sent to prison for many months).
I saw 5 soldiers forcing a Palestinian detainee to sing and hitting him while doing that (stopped them after it was getting bad).
No executions. Never.
I'm not one to co-sign the stupid title - "the most moral army in the world". There are armies who never engaged in war and have no conflicts. They are obv more "moral" in that sense. If you are trying to prove that even Jews are human, flawed, petty, get angry and such, you can stop, cause I can assure you its true.
Anyway, now that we officially won the war, you can stand on your head till it goes blue (pun intended).
I think we can call it a wrap when the best argument they have left is "so what, people did genocide thousands of years ago too"
Or, the Arabs tried to genocide Israel immediately after it was created and Hamas still would like to accomplish this. Israel declined to allow this. I think I wrapped it up better.
Lol at proving that war and military conflict is a messy affair.
News at eleven - ice cream is officially cold
Or, the Arabs tried to genocide Israel immediately after it was created and Hamas still would like to accomplish this. Israel declined to allow this. I think I wrapped it up better.
no the Israelis did the Nakba which was a brutal ethnic cleansing campaign of rape and murder and theft. they planned this mass murder campaign for years.
and if you read the early Zionists like Herzl, they knew all along that they would need to subjugate or expel the native population.
what you are doing is a rhetorical technique call the "inversion of victimhood". its often used to justify atrocities.
no the Israelis did the Nakba which was a brutal ethnic cleansing campaign of rape and murder and theft. they planned this mass murder campaign for years.and if you read the early Zionists like Herzl, they knew all along that they would need to subjugate or expel the native population.what you are doing is a rhetorical technique call the "inversion of victimhood". its often u
that post is filth. from top to buttom.
Ofc we all have read it from you before, as you only re-post the same batshit crazy claim over and over., but something about the wording this time is next level filth
II'm not one to co-sign the stupid title - "the most moral army in the world".
Anyway, now that we officially won the war, you can stand on your head till it goes blue (pun intended).
The war is over?
So this is Christmas
And what have you done?
And so this is Christmas (war is over)
I’ll skip the atrocities just to say it’s good you admit the IDF is just as prone to war crimes as other armies.
Decleration of victory by netanyahu is necessary for any progress on a ceasefire
I can swallow it. Even the line of doing a deal with hamas because hamas is no more.
that post is filth. from top to buttom.
Ofc we all have read it from you before, as you only re-post the same batshit crazy claim over and over., but something about the wording this time is next level filth
there is no reason to sugarcoat the extensive atrocities of the Nakba where mass executions of men women and children took place.
Lots of articles, books and other forms of recorded history out there available for free on how in 1948 the Arabs razed 600 Jewish villages and expulsed ~700,000 Jews from their homes and then made it illegal for them to return to those homes and put up Arab only settlements on that land.
esp when someone is trying to promote the idea that it was somehow the Arabs fault that the new Israeli state did all of that murder.
why you leave out this part of the article: "Some of them were convicted by military courts. They felt bitter and betrayed."
Do some soldiers commit crimes? Ofc.
Is it an official policy: No. And if they are caught, they are brought to justice.
kind of refutes your entire point, doesn't it?
There are kill zones in Gaza where Israeli soldiers are ordered to kill everyone they see. They even murdered three Israeli hostages and no one was punished because the soldiers were supposed to murder unarmed civilians and were following their orders.
There are kill zones in Gaza where Israeli soldiers are ordered to kill everyone they see. They even murdered three Israeli hostages and no one was punished because the soldiers were supposed to murder unarmed civilians and were following their orders.
God, this thread is just regurgitating same old things over and over. Ill explain this yet again.
every area we operate in, we first send orders to evacuate all the civilians. then we make sure they all evacuated and had proper time and safe corridors to leave the area. only then we start to operate in the area. every person that is still in said area is held as a combat enemy soldier. and in 95% of the cases it is an operative.
this practice is only in place to protect the Palestinians, as we give Hamas a notice to which area we are coming, letting them set traps and to organize for us.
I went into far more details about it before. too tired to elaborate
just one more thing to paint the picture - the militants don't wear uniforms and don't carry a sign - Im Hamas.
That is why we have to engage every person in a "kill zone" area, as they are more than likely to be operatives. If we don't engage first, we usually get a few RPG missiles fired at us from a "civilian" is regular cloths, who was "just walking by", until he picked up the launcher
God, this thread is just regurgitating same old things over and over. Ill explain this yet again.every area we operate in, we first send orders to evacuate all the civilians. then we make sure they all evacuated and had proper time and safe corridors to leave the area. only then we start to operate in the area. every person that is still in said area is held as a combat enemy s
Just to be clear, you are saying it is okay to shoot someone who is clearly unarmed and waiving a white flag?
Just to be clear, you are saying it is okay to shoot someone who is clearly unarmed and waiving a white flag?
No. But when you have to make a split second decision, in bad conditions, you find out sometimes you were wrong. this is not a video game, you dont get to restart if you are killed, and you owe first and foremost you duty to the orders and to your fellow soldiers.
No one wants to shoot an Israeli hostage. I'll give you all 2 inside scoops:
1. the unit that shot the hostages were not told which bullets hit them (5.56 or 7.62 or grenade launchers), as to not put the blame on specific soldiers. you cant imagine what it is to carry the idea you are the one that killed the hostages.
2. anywhere between 15%-30% of IDF soldiers that were killed in Gaza were casualties of friendly fire. grasp that number.
this is a clear situation of "you have to be there".
War is nothing like you can imagine. not the stress, not the conditions, not the risks. and factoring in the fact that our enemy doesnt wear uniforms and is very intrenched.
You train and train and train so once you actually see combat, you dont think, but just operate. he who stops to think, usually is no longer with us
just one more thing to paint the picture - the militants don't wear uniforms and don't carry a sign - Im Hamas. That is why we have to engage every person in a "kill zone" area, as they are more than likely to be operatives. If we don't engage first, we usually get a few RPG missiles fired at us from a "civilian" is regular cloths, who was "just walking by", until he picked up
No, you do not have to engage every person. You actually don't have to murder civilians.
"you have to be there"
Yeah bud you just have to shoot everyone. You just have to commit genocide, no other way.
