Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]
if Hamas gives up their weapons then the Gazans will be slaughtered to a man. the only thing keeping them from all being executed is the weapons.
we all know what has happened every time the resistance has given up their defensive arms in the past.
The most basic logic proves this completely false. You have to be insane to believe what you just posted.
I know its not Thursday, but thought I'd take a step back in time to 2009...
https://www2.ohchr.org/english/bodies/hr...
7. Deliberate attacks against the civilian population
43. The Mission investigated 11 incidents in which the Israeli armed forces launched direct
attacks against civilians with lethal outcome (chap. XI). The facts in all bar one of the attacks
indicate no justifiable military objective. The first two are attacks on houses in the al-Samouni
neighbourhood south of Gaza City, including the shelling of a house in which Palestinian
civilians had been forced to assemble by the Israeli armed forces. The following group of seven
incidents concern the shooting of civilians while they were trying to leave their homes to walk to
a safer place, waving white flags and, in some of the cases, following an injunction from the
Israeli forces to do so. The facts gathered by the Mission indicate that all the attacks occurred
under circumstances in which the Israeli armed forces were in control of the area and had
previously entered into contact with or had at least observed the persons they subsequently
attacked, so that they must have been aware of their civilian status. In the majority of these
incidents, the consequences of the Israeli attacks against civilians were aggravated by their
subsequent refusal to allow the evacuation of the wounded or to permit access to ambulances.
Page 404 is where it really gets interesting.
The continuum is evident most immediately with the policy of blockade that preceded the operations and that in the Mission’s view amounts to collective punishment intentionally inflicted by the Government of Israel on the people of the Gaza Strip. When the operations began, the Gaza Strip had been under a severe regime of closures and restrictions on the movement of people, goods and services for almost three years. This included basic necessities of life, such as food and medical supplies, and products required for the conduct of daily life, such as fuel, electricity, school items, and repair and construction material. These measures were imposed by Israel purportedly to isolate and weaken Hamas after its electoral victory in view of the perceived continuing threat to Israel’s security that it represented. Their effect was compounded by the withholding of financial and other assistance by some donors on similar grounds. Adding hardship to the already difficult situation in the Gaza Strip, the effects of the prolonged blockade did not spare any aspect of the life of Gazans. Prior to the military operation, the Gaza economy had been depleted, the health sector beleaguered, the population had been made dependent on humanitarian assistance for survival and the conduct of daily life. Men, women and children were psychologically suffering from long-standing poverty, insecurity and violence, and enforced confinement in a heavily overcrowded territory. The dignity of the people of Gaza had been severely eroded. This was the situation in the Gaza Strip when the Israeli armed forces launched their offensive in December 2008. The military operations and the manner in which they were conducted considerably
aforementioned the effects of the blockade. The result, in a very short time, was unprecedented long-term damage both to the people and to their development and recovery prospects.
I have no clue how you people look at yourselves in the mirror, or sleep at night.
Should we go back in time to when Hamas and their counterparts were sending women and children into Israel strapped with bombs with the express mission of blowing up civilians?
Cmon man, pass whatever you’re smoking
Five more facts to deny:
Freezing the fingers of child terrorists is a legitimate way to ensure they can’t activate their weapons against the brave and moral boys and girls of the heroic IDF.
If other parts of them have to be frozen in order to achieve this, that’s just collateral damage.
Should we go back in time to when Hamas and their counterparts were sending women and children into Israel strapped with bombs with the express mission of blowing up civilians?
hamas: yes please
Page 404 is where it really gets interesting. The continuum is evident most immediately with the policy of blockade that preceded the operations and that in the Mission’s view amounts to collective punishment intentionally inflicted by the Government of Israel on the people of the Gaza Strip. When the operations began, the Gaza Strip had been under a severe regime of closures a
Great article. just one question: why are we only talking about the Israeli blockade on Gaza?
doesn't Gaza have a border with another state?
That is how we sleep so well at night. we realize that feeling driven articles are paining a very inaccurate picture, and that the attempt to demonize Israel is done only for political reasons.
Actually that seems like a stretch on second thought. You really don't do anything which is problematic for your opponents. You just call names that don't fit and make the same tired assertions. That is more like a cheerleader that a warrior of any kind. I have a way to deal with ego maniacs like you- you won this round and every round from now on till eternity. happy?I'm sayi
I'm not triggered by any word. I told you I don’t care. Stop projecting. Also, you know nothing about the law. First, the arrest warrant against Bibi and Galant is for suspicion of committing war crimes. They have not been found guilty yet and they need to stand trial (not that they will but they are not convicted yet). Secondly and more important, not every legal scholar deduces that Israel has committed the crime of genocide. That is just a false claim. Many scholars differ on that subject.
Thirdly and most importantly, I do not care about those legal definitions. We are at war, and we have a responsibility for our population - Jewish, Christian and Muslim, and we must take every majeure to ensure our safety. I argued before that the legal laws established after WW2 do not consider modern terror and the laws are not applicable to this kind of conflict.
Fourth, if we are committing genocide, then we are god awful in doing so. Are we really that bad?
QFT
and why are they attacking hispitols:
"Field investigators and fighters from Unit 504 in the Intelligence Branch coordinated the arrests and conducted dozens of field interrogations in order to bring over 240 terrorists from the Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) terrorist organizations to the country for further interrogation. The IDF added that the terrorists who were brought in are expected to provide "value intelligence" for the continuation of the war efforts.
The IDF said today that this is one of the largest terrorist arrests carried out at a single concentration point since the beginning of the war. During the arrest, several terrorists tried to pose as patients, some even hid in ambulances, but were identified by the forces and arrested."
Great article. just one question: why are we only talking about the Israeli blockade on Gaza?
doesn't Gaza have a border with another state?
That is how we sleep so well at night. we realize that feeling driven articles are paining a very inaccurate picture, and that the attempt to demonize Israel is done only for political reasons.
To be fair, just talking about Hamas tunnel infrastructure, it must have taken a lot of machinery and material to build it. How much of that stuff was smuggled through Israeli controlled borders?
So the "blockade" on Egypt's border had plenty of people looking the other way for years and probably in pretty high positions. Bordering on levels that could probably be argued as support.
Egypt is an ally of Israeli and a comprador for the West. its a joke to act like they would be allowed to supply Gaza enough to allow the people to live a normal life. the entire point of Israel and the West is to deprive them of life.
Egypt is an ally of Israeli and a comprador for the West. its a joke to act like they would be allowed to supply Gaza enough to allow the people to live a normal life. the entire point of Israel and the West is to deprive them of life.
Assuming this LOL argument is true, then isn't the blame should be targeted toward Egypt. why is the blame solely on Israel?
And this argument truly shows your lack of knowledge on the region. Egypt is not an ally of Israel and hardly has any relations with us. All their army training maneuvers are a simulation of a war with Israel. No Egyptian leader has visited Israel in a very long time. No country investments in Israel, no joint ventures excluding gas.
Egypt is a Muslim brotherhood nation, governed by military law, with very cold relationships with Israel
Egypt is an ally of Israeli and a comprador for the West. its a joke to act like they would be allowed to supply Gaza enough to allow the people to live a normal life. the entire point of Israel and the West is to deprive them of life.
The entire point of the west is to deprive Gaza of life?
Don't bother answering, I just wrote this to shine a light on your absurdity. Man, take the blue and the red pill, then take all the other colors. you need it
To be fair, just talking about Hamas tunnel infrastructure, it must have taken a lot of machinery and material to build it. How much of that stuff was smuggled through Israeli controlled borders? So the "blockade" on Egypt's border had plenty of people looking the other way for years and probably in pretty high positions. Bordering on levels that could probably be argued as sup
I don’t think we can underestimate how corrupt the UN is; and how much war material is smuggled through Israel by the UN and associated NGOs labeled as “humanitarian aid”.
That being said, on top of this Hamas derived a significant portion of their income by taxing smuggling through Egypt, as I am sure specific corrupt Egyptian officials did also.
I think something we forget about the third world, is just how much seemingly maladaptive behavior can be explained by corruption and nepotism of individuals and groups. We constantly look for ulterior motives, but sometimes that is all there is, and it is enough.
Assuming this LOL argument is true, then isn't the blame should be targeted toward Egypt. why is the blame solely on Israel?And this argument truly shows your lack of knowledge on the region. Egypt is not an ally of Israel and hardly has any relations with us. All their army training maneuvers are a simulation of a war with Israel. No Egyptian leader has visited Israel in a ver
Egypt deserves a lot of blame.
and yes Israel has been trying to deprive Gaza of life for well, 80+ years.
Egypt deserves a lot of blame.
and yes Israel has been trying to deprive Gaza of life for well, 80+ years.
Dude, stop. You clearly don't know your history. The Gaza situation we know now, has started only in 1987.
what are you talking about - 80 years +?
for instance- what did Israel did in Gaza while it was a part of Egypt?
I don’t think we can underestimate how corrupt the UN is; and how much war material is smuggled through Israel by the UN and associated NGOs labeled as “humanitarian aid”. That being said, on top of this Hamas derived a significant portion of their income by taxing smuggling through Egypt, as I am sure specific corrupt Egyptian officials did also. I think something we forget a
I'd be surprised if the vast majority of war building materials did not come from the Egypt side with some knowledge (and money) being at the top.
Dunyain -- I think something we forget about the third world, is just how much seemingly maladaptive behavior can be explained by corruption and nepotism of individuals and groups. We constantly look for ulterior motives, but sometimes that is all there is, and it is enough.
Well, yes, as everyone who's travelled east of Suez knows, but Israel is not a complete stranger to corruption. On the one hand, corruption does not seem to be completely institutional and systemic, so the courts do occasionally bring charges. On the other hand, to have one former president convicted of sexual offences, one former prime minister convicted of bribery offences and the current serving prime minister seemingly perpetually on trial for bribery offences which somehow never get conclusively dealt with is not a great look, and is unusual in the Western democratic world which Israel aspires to.
Dude, stop. You clearly don't know your history. The Gaza situation we know now, has started only in 1987.
what are you talking about - 80 years +?
for instance- what did Israel did in Gaza while it was a part of Egypt?
massacre after massacre
Well, yes, as everyone who's travelled east of Suez knows, but Israel is not a complete stranger to corruption. On the one hand, corruption does not seem to be completely institutional and systemic, so the courts do occasionally bring charges. On the other hand, to have one former president convicted of sexual offences, one former prime minister convicted of bribery offences an
Bad take. In the US, the president elect was convicted, with more pending trials. but once he was elected, all trials and procedures are frozen.
France, Brittan and most countries also have similar laws, which prevent proceedings against elected officials.
In Israel, there is an actual enforcement of the principle of equality before the law, which is a fundamental principle of democracy.
Bad take. In the US, the president elect was convicted, with more pending trials. but once he was elected, all trials and procedures are frozen.France, Brittan and most countries also have similar laws, which prevent proceedings against elected officials.In Israel, there is an actual enforcement of the principle of equality before the law, which is a fundamental principle of de
In south korea where those guarantees don't exist 3 presidents have been found guilty and the prosecutor who did that, became the president, then tried a coup suspending the constitution because he disliked the opposition.
Bad take. In the US, the president elect was convicted, with more pending trials. but once he was elected, all trials and procedures are frozen.France, Brittan and most countries also have similar laws, which prevent proceedings against elected officials.In Israel, there is an actual enforcement of the principle of equality before the law, which is a fundamental principle of de
Britain has no such law. French and US presidents are immune from prosecution while serving, although, of course, a recent French president has been convicted in two corruption trials since leaving office. And, as I mentioned, Israel has undertaken prosecutions against highly placed people.
Britain has no such law. French and US presidents are immune from prosecution while serving, although, of course, a recent French president has been convicted in two corruption trials since leaving office. And, as I mentioned, Israel has undertaken prosecutions against highly placed people.
In italy only special tribunals can try ministers or ex ministers for purported crimes committed in office. Salvini recently got a not guilty verdict for such an accusation (he was accused of kidnapping migrants because he ordered a ship with illegals not to unboard them when minister).
Great article. just one question: why are we only talking about the Israeli blockade on Gaza?
doesn't Gaza have a border with another state?
That is how we sleep so well at night. we realize that feeling driven articles are paining a very inaccurate picture, and that the attempt to demonize Israel is done only for political reasons.
You’re absolutely right.
When a political regime is repeatedly accused over a period of many years of injustice and forcing apartheid, action must be taken to remove them from power and bring its leaders and belligerents to justice.
This report is just one example detailing why Israel is guilty of the accusations against it. But sure, we’re only talking about Israel’s blockade of Gaza.
