Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]
You’re absolutely right. When a political regime is repeatedly accused over a period of many years of injustice and forcing apartheid, action must be taken to remove them from power and bring its leaders and belligerents to justice. This report is just one example detailing why Israel is guilty of the accusations against it. But sure, we’re only talking about Israel
I was addressing the point you raised.
The fact that Israel is almost the only country accused by the UN over the years is not an indictment against Israel, but against the UN.
Don't you wonder why there almost no resolutions against any Muslim country (lets count number of Muslim states and we can figure the answer).
No one in his right mind is impressed by the countless accusations against Israel. No one in his right mind is impressed by the lack of accusations and resolutions against Muslim countries (lets name this time Turkey as an example).
We care about actual real world facts, not the popular vote in the UN
You’re absolutely right. When a political regime is repeatedly accused over a period of many years of injustice and forcing apartheid, action must be taken to remove them from power and bring its leaders and belligerents to justice. This report is just one example detailing why Israel is guilty of the accusations against it. But sure, we’re only talking about Israel’s blockade
Accusation by the left of anything should never result in any action as the left embodies all that is wrong in our societies and should never have any power in any aspect of life.
Well for one, there's the unprovoked 1956 invasion that seized it temporarily.
So hard to unwind far far back to figure out was it an egg or a chicken that was born first.
Also, no idea under what circumstances Palestinian people would live alongside the Israel people, seems like such a stressful environment.
If there was no Hamas, and Palestine became a sovereign country, could they climb out out of poverty somehow? Or there's just not enough neighboring countries to do trades with and their land just doesn't have much on natural resources at all? I guess Israel landscape is quite similar, but somehow they did managed to become quite a rich nation.
On a higher level, I think I would like to speculate more on Ukraine-Russia war (not sure if there's another thread for it already)
Surely there's Russia that is trying to negotiate it's place in a world and tell that they do have things to say, and if the things they say are being ignored they do have power to "squish" your ass? I mean war is awful all the time, it's huge loss of human life, and huge economical waste.
But if Russia indeed gave a fair notice what they expect Ukraine to do and not to do as it's neighbor (or even that thought process is abusive already?) and they think "ain't ****, we do what we thinks is best to our interest", Russia might just feel justified and it's necessary for them to do such a thing to show them that if their word/diplomacy is not being taken serious, they will try to KO you.
I live in Lithuania, tbh everyone feels quite safe here and there's really not much tension in the air or anything like that, it doesn't feel like Russia would come here. The big nice guarantee seems to be USA being in NATO, and they seem to try to live up to those type of commitments historically, and Russia would stretch way too thin for something that they could not possibly win, where's going to Ukraine wasn't triggering same promised protection commitments. (Every time I want to talk **** about US, I remember "damn that's really our big bro, otherwise this big bear country might come down and not really have the culture of constitution and liberties)
Accusation by the left of anything should never result in any action as the left embodies all that is wrong in our societies and should never have any power in any aspect of life.
Extremely intelligent take.
Why just deprive the left of power though, wouldn’t it be better to solve the left problem once and for all if we killed them all?
Who needs balance in politics anyway, there is no future in an ideology that is focused on benefiting society as a whole.
they offered the hostages back for nothing on Oct 9th
....glad we agree this was never about the hostages.
...if Hamas gives up their weapons then the Gazans will be slaughtered to a man.
1) That would mean that the hostages would be back. For nothing means, here take them, and we expect nothing in return, not even a cease fire. I provided you direct evidence on this thread that what Hamas demanded in exchange for return of the hostages was untenable and unacceptable. This post is delusional.
2) Obviously. Wow. Of course it isn't. It is about destroying the terrorist organization known as Hamas.
3) You might actually believe this. But, you know, the delusional thing.
I was addressing the point you raised. The fact that Israel is almost the only country accused by the UN over the years is not an indictment against Israel, but against the UN.Don't you wonder why there almost no resolutions against any Muslim country (lets count number of Muslim states and we can figure the answer). No one in his right mind is impressed by the countless accusa
Abuse of international humanitarian law is not a subject to be impressed by.
If there was one single humanitarian organization criticizing one nation, while all others reported no abuse, then I would agree that there is an obvious bias by that organization towards that country.
Unfortunately, this is not the case. For many years now the entire humanitarian community has called out Israel in near unison for it’s disregard of basic humanitarian law and the impunity with which it acts.
The only thing I wonder is how anyone can actually believe in defending against that.
Well, yes, as everyone who's travelled east of Suez knows, but Israel is not a complete stranger to corruption. On the one hand, corruption does not seem to be completely institutional and systemic, so the courts do occasionally bring charges. On the other hand, to have one former president convicted of sexual offences, one former prime minister convicted of bribery offences an
https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2023
Israel is the #33 nation in the world on the corruption scale above. Egypt is around #100. The Axis of Resistance all reside in the gutter. This is probably fair, and hopefully gives some proper perspective.
I'd be surprised if the vast majority of war building materials did not come from the Egypt side with some knowledge (and money) being at the top.
Maybe. But I imagine it would be a pain in the ass to smuggle in all that concrete, metal bars, etc. And it could more easily be brought in as "civilian purpose humanitarian aid" through Israel right in the open.
I imagine if post war Hamas (or some similar group) remains in power and there is zero real oversight or accountability, China will get contracts to rebuild Gaza and they will rebuild all the terror tunnels, but much more formidably, all on our tax dollars.
Extremely intelligent take.
Why just deprive the left of power though, wouldn’t it be better to solve the left problem once and for all if we killed them all?
Who needs balance in politics anyway, there is no future in an ideology that is focused on benefiting society as a whole.
The "left problem" can only be solved by the left. The fact that Trump could win the Presidency again tells you how far they have fallen. I think people saw the "Palestinian" protests on college campuses and said enough is enough.
The "left problem" can only be solved by the left. The fact that Trump could win the Presidency again tells you how far they have fallen. I think people saw the "Palestinian" protests on college campuses and said enough is enough.
I think people who feel passionately about this issue (both ways) overestimate how important it is for "normies." I think Covid restrictions, inflation, immigration, crime, and general weariness with PC culture is a better explanation of "leftism" performing very poorly at the polls in November.
are you guys not aware of Kamala and the Dems position on this? they are the ones who did the genocide.
are you guys not aware of Kamala and the Dems position on this? they are the ones who did the genocide.
Kamala is the VP, and there is no indication whoever is making ME related decisions in the WH has been taking her counsel. Seems like she kind of checked out after losing the election and doesn't care much about what is going on anymore.
That being said, by all accounts the Biden administration did try to pressure Netanyahu to not enter Rafah or Lebanon, or go after Hamas/Hezbollah leadership. But Netanyahu called their bluff, and they folded. And here we are.
he pressured him by giving billions of weapons and never saying no. Americans are really easy to dupe.
actually, I think he held up a shipment of 1000 pound bombs for a month or two. so Israel had to get by burning people alive with only 250 and 500 pound bombs.
This thing is about to come to an end when Trump takes over. He's drawn a line in the sand and given Hamas a date they better return the hostages. We are about to see just how badly Biden bungled this whole deal. I'd be terrified if I was Hamas.
in other news, Jimmy Carter died today and he spoke appallingly badly about Israel. I would consider him an antisemite.
in other news, Jimmy Carter died today and he spoke appallingly badly about Israel. I would consider him an antisemite.
Carter has criticised Israel on many issues that I agree with. Israel had oppertunities for peace during the late 70's and early 80's with most of the region and declined.
Notwithstanding the above, Carter was an Israeli supporter and friend. Guess he was also bought by AIPAC.
The fact that Israel is almost the only country accused by the UN over the years is not an indictment against Israel, but against the UN.
Don't you wonder why there almost no resolutions against any Muslim country (lets count number of Muslim states and we can figure the answer).
You’re in great company with saddams iraq after he gassed tens of thousands of Kurds. I think iraq may have been majority Muslim.
That being said, by all accounts the Biden administration did try to pressure Netanyahu to not enter Rafah or Lebanon, or go after Hamas/Hezbollah leadership. But Netanyahu called their bluff, and they folded. And here we are.
Don’t be offended when I say this actually made me laugh out loud.
Is this some sort of new tactic of pressure, whereby you continue to give your ally endless support and everything they ask for?
It’s the public they were bluffing, not Netenyahu.
You’re in great company with saddams iraq after he gassed tens of thousands of Kurds. I think iraq may have been majority Muslim.
Yes, please let's compare.
let's start with 2024:
17 resolutions on Israel. 6 resolutions against the rest of the world (Russia, North Korea, Iran and co.)
Let's go back:
During the Iran - Iraq war, while gas was used, for the entire 8 years, the UN issued 11 resolutions against Iraq.
as stated before, for one year only, the UN issued more against Israel.
between the year 1980-1988, while Iraq was gassing Iran (and vice versa), the UN issued more than 100 resolutions against Israel.
so, your claim that we were in the same company as Iraq, even at that time, is incorrect, and just shows more of your bias.
