Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]
Massive Israeli spending increase to influence U.S. political process. From The Forward.
In November 2023 the Houthis took captive a cargo ship full of Asian sailors and have been holding them in captivity since. We have no clue as to any of their status. No Americans, no Israelis onboard FWIW.
These aren't people fighting some righteous war. They are just evil bigoted religious fanatics that have no place in a civilized world.
And the Western and Muslim media apparatus, that is completely outraged about every piece of fake news in Gaza, is completely indifferent to this. When was the last time you heard about any of the captured sailors or their condition?
The media would just prefer everyone forgot, which is what has happened.
No Jews, no news.
These people (including all the fake moralists posting in this thread right now) have absolutely zero first principles. This is about tribalism, bigotry, envy and hate.
We have no clue as to any of their status.
red cross has visited them and said they are in "very good condition"
When was the last time you heard about any of the captured sailors or their condition?
a few months ago
Did you even read your own link?
The Red Cross says they wont comment on the condition of the sailors.
The Houthis are the ones who announced they were in very good condition.
The Philippine govt, who the majority of the hostages are from, announced they believe the sailors to be in poor health. This was 4 months ago.
Even if they were in good condition, the behavior of the Houthis is atrocious, and the indifference of the "international community," especially Western leftists and the Muslim world, shows how just unmoral and depraved it is. And how they have no moral authority and no first principles. It is just hate, envy and tribalism.
ok, a man who accompanied the Red Cross said they were in "very good condition"
I guess he wasnt part of the Red Cross but just went with them for some reason.
Even if they were in good condition, the behavior of the Houthis is atrocious, and the indifference of the "international community," especially Western leftists and the Muslim world, shows how just unmoral and depraved it is. And how they have no moral authority and no first principles. It is just hate, envy and tribalism.
the Houthis are very clear that they will stop attacking ships and release the sailors as soon as the genocide is ended. they are trying to stop people like Netanyahu who is an outlaw wanted for egregious war crimes, and Israel who are currently on trial for genocide.
I dont know why they are holding these sailors. I agree it seems wrong. but its not as wrong as genocide. so theres your first principles.
"God is the Greatest, Death to America, Death to Israel, Curse be upon the Jews, Victory to Islam"
what a bunch of jerkoffs. i for one am glad their leaders will all be dead soon
I do find the hand wringing over red cross visits funny considering well over 10k political prisoners are being tortured by Israel and Dun obv could care less if the red cross visited them.
I do find the hand wringing over red cross visits funny considering well over 10k political prisoners are being tortured by Israel and Dun obv could care less if the red cross visited them.
Red cross visited *and didn't comment on their status*, you claimed they did, then sourced the fact than the head of the houthi news agency said they are in good conditions.
yes I amended that a companion with the Red Cross who accompanied them commented on their status.
in completely unrelated news, the other day 5 political prisoners were tortured to death by Israel in prison.
Just came across this interesting letter written by a Harvard junior-year student who visited Palestine in summer 1939:--
On the Jewish side there is the desire for complete domination, with Jerusalem as the capital of their new land of milk and honey, with the right to colonize Trans-Jordan. They feel that given sufficient opportunity they can cultivate the land and develop it as they have done in the Western portion. The Arab answer to this is incidentally that the Jews have had the benefit of capital, which, had the Arabs possessed, equal miracles could have been performed by them. Though this is partly true, the economic setup of Arab agricultural progress with its absentee landlords and primitive methods of cultivation, could not under any circumstances have competed with the Jews...
It is useless to discuss which has the 'fairer' claim. The important thing is to try to work out a solution that will work... Two autonomous districts giving them both self-government to the extent that they do not interfere with each other and that British interest is safeguarded. Jerusalem, having the background that it has, should be an independent unit. Though this is a difficult solution, yet it is the only one that I think can work.
The student's initials were JFK, if that's any clue.
Just came across this interesting letter written by a Harvard junior-year student who visited Palestine in summer 1939:--
The student's initials were JFK, if that's any clue.
Except he never used the word Palestine, because he never visited Palestine. I assume he visited Israel and maybe the West Bank, that was part of Jordan.
Him "visiting Palestine" is your own re-writing of history.
Obviously there was no concept of Palestine at that time by the Arabs. There was Jordan, which included what we know call the West Bank; Egypt, which included what we now call Gaza, and other belligerents like Syria and Lebanon.
Ironically, if the Arabs of that time had conceived of "Palestine" and had any interest in actualizing it (alongside Israel as opposed to instead of Israel), it would have easily happened; as they completely controlled all of what you call Palestine.
Palestine has always been an colonial construct, first by Romans and then 1000 years later by the British. And for the first half of the 20th century pretty much all Arabs were hostile to the concept, and some (but certainly not all) Arabs have very recently begrudgingly been willing to swallow the bitter pill that the best case scenario is accepting there should be such a thing as Palestine alongside Israel.
But there is still a long way to go to there actually being a thing called Palestine, and even if Israel did everything they could to make it work (which they certainly aren't by a mile) there is no guaranteeing it wouldn't end up as dysfunctional as Lebanon and Syria.
I would say if/when a Palestinian state is actually actualized, it quickly becoming a dysfunctional failed state where non state actors attack Israel leading to re-occupation is the most likely scenario.
the Arabs did not control that area in 1939. the British did. and I think you missed this important part that remains true today for the ideology.
On the Jewish side there is the desire for complete domination, with Jerusalem as the capital of their new land of milk and honey, with the right to colonize Trans-Jordan.
Except he never used the word Palestine, because he never visited Palestine. I assume he visited Israel and maybe the West Bank, that was part of Jordan. Him "visiting Palestine" is your own re-writing of history. Obviously there was no concept of Palestine at that time by the Arabs. There was Jordan, which included what we know call the West Bank; Egypt, which included wha
And the Romans didn't invade France because that didn't exist at the time. Brilliant, thank you for pointing that out to us.
And the Romans didn't invade France because that didn't exist at the time. Brilliant, thank you for pointing that out to us.
It is actually important when the goal is to re-write history to align with your own preferences. Which you all understand very well when it is convenient. If I gave that same post and said JKF visited Judea, you would certainly say that is both incorrect and important.
This of course is why UN publishing textbooks that dont acknowledge Israel, its cities or its long history is especially insidious and pernicious. And showing they are a bad faith actor.
I don't really care for the "We were here first" arguments as they're unclear, unhelpful and irrelevant imo. A solution must be found that allows all the people born in the area to live there under a government of their choosing, even if that means separate states.
If people living there can't accept that others there have that right then they should be told to like it or lump it. Alternative citizenship in other countries could also be an option.
Judea was like a thousand years ago right? kinda like the Roman Empire. similarly, I dont think the Italians from Rome should be able to take over France and Syria and Tunisia and all the other places they ran a thousand years ago.
Just came across this interesting letter written by a Harvard junior-year student who visited Palestine in summer 1939:--
The student's initials were JFK, if that's any clue.
I dont think there is a ton of pushback the Zionists circa 1939 were ambitiously trying to make a state as big as they could get away with. And the Arabs were intent on driving the Jews and British completely out, to the point they were trying to ally with Nazi German to make it happen. And history worked out better for the side that didn't ally with Nazi Germany.
But that is all before any of us were born, so what?
The wild thing is even though the Arabs tried to ally with Nazi Germany to push them out, the British were still pragmatic enough they tried to work with the Arabs to partition the land. But the Arabs gave them nothing to work with, so they just threw up their hands for the Arabs and Jews to fight it out. And they did, and the Jews were victorious beyond any reasonable person's wildest dreams. And here we are.
Just came across this interesting letter written by a Harvard junior-year student who visited Palestine in summer 1939:--
The student's initials were JFK, if that's any clue.
when he wrote 2 districts was that about Jerusalem, or district in the sense of piece of land under autonomous control?
Judea was like a thousand years ago right? kinda like the Roman Empire. similarly, I dont think the Italians from Rome should be able to take over France and Syria and Tunisia and all the other places they ran a thousand years ago.
while "Palestine" never happened, Arabs got their land: it's called Jordan
