Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]
Trudeau is expected to resign in Canada by Wednesday. His eventual conservative successor brings views entirely inline with Trump on Israel, the Middle East, and social issues in North America related to the spillover of these tensions.
It's a massive relief for me that the right is coming into power, and may hold it for a decade. They'll make mistakes in other places as other parties do. But on these issues, they get it. And I think this thread will finally understand why some of us rolled our eyes at those who thought Biden (or Kamala) was a problem for anything pro-Pal.
The renewed age of full American, Canadian, and Israeli cooperation, alongside the Saudies and others, is upon us again. And thank goodness for that. Not just for what it means in Israel. But for what it means in North America.
The Biden administration did try hard for a ceasefire
But they handcuffed Israel by condemning them and empowered hamas to constantly reject them
Interesting way to “try hard” for a ceasefire, by giving the offensive belligerent an unprecedented amount of military funding.
With any luck Trump will try hard to broker a ceasefire in Ukraine by giving Russia $14b in military aid, not that they need it.
To be fair they had no choice.
They couldn’t risk being blatantly complicit in genocide; it’s best to arm them beyond imagination and then turn around and condemn them.
I’ll give credit where it is due; they managed a massive profit for the industrial military complex while at the same time wiping the blood off their hands.
The Biden administration did try hard for a ceasefire
But they handcuffed Israel by condemning them and empowered hamas to constantly reject them
The Biden administration tried to get a ceasefire without putting any political pressure on Hamas. For some reason they thought they could just put all the pressure on Israel and Israel would eventually bend to Hamas demands. So Hamas never felt a ceasefire was in their interests. They still dont.
Hamas objective was always to draw Israel into a wider regional war. Which was successful, although they obviously did not realize how poorly their putative allies would perform (to date). And as long as the Houthis are still attacking Israel, and hostilities with Hezbollah and Iran may restart, and no pressure is being put on them at all; Hamas will continue to have no motivation to make peace.
Interesting way to “try hard” for a ceasefire, by giving the offensive belligerent an unprecedented amount of military funding.With any luck Trump will try hard to broker a ceasefire in Ukraine by giving Russia $14b in military aid, not that they need it. To be fair they had no choice. They couldn’t risk being blatantly complicit in genocide; it’s best to arm them beyond imagin
I truly believe you believe this
The houthis ethnically cleansed the Jews out of Yemen and continue to
��From 55,000 Jews to nearly none—and the hatred persists.
In 1948, Yemen was home to 55,000 Jews. Today, fewer than 10 remain after the Houthis ethnically cleansed the Jewish population. Yet their obsession with Jews and the only Jewish state continues.
Over the last two weeks, they’ve fired rockets at Israel eight times. This isn’t about politics or territory—it’s pure, irrational ...
In January 2021, the United States designated the Houthis a terrorist organization, creating fears of an aid shortage in Yemen,[138] but this stance was reversed a month later after Joe Biden became president.[139] On 17 January 2022, Houthi missile and drone attacks on UAE industrial targets set fuel trucks on fire and killed three foreign workers. This was the first specific attack to which the Houthi admitted, and the first to result in deaths.[140] A response led by Saudi Arabia included a 21 January air strike on a detention centre in Yemen, resulting in at least 70 deaths.
Biden has empowered terrorists and hurt Israel's image
This should change now
Whatever would give you that impression?
And I truly believe that you believe Anthony Blinken and Joe Biden who have for decades been publicly staunch supporters of Israel “tried hard” for a ceasefire.
Really guys we’re working day and night to bring an end to this war. Our efforts have included but have not been limited to sending Israel a record setting amount of military aid.
That oughta do it!
Oh right, I forgot that the largest and most advanced military in the region “has a right to defend itself” … against a ragtag bunch with no airforce no navy no air defence and little to no artillery and mortar capability.
Meh, what’s another $8b anyway
fyp
This post suggests that Houthis are responsible for ethnically cleansing 55,000 Jews that once lived in Yemen, and this is not only inaccurate, but extremely lame.
Don’t get me wrong, the Yemenite Jews have a long and disgusting history of persecution in Yemen, that still persists to this day at the hands of the Houthis; nobody is arguing against that.
But if 54,000 of them were airlifted out of Yemen into Israel 50 years before Houthis even came into existence, then I think you should be a little more factual when posting about their persecution, rather than saying
Whatever would give you that impression? And I truly believe that you believe Anthony Blinken and Joe Biden who have for decades been publicly staunch supporters of Israel “tried hard” for a ceasefire. Really guys we’re working day and night to bring an end to this war. Our efforts have included but have not been limited to sending Israel a record setting amount of military aid
They are staunch supporters of Israel's right to exist unlike many in this thread
But they are not supporters of Israeli settlements or expansion and have been strong supporters of a 2 state solution
This post suggests that Houthis are responsible for ethnically cleansing 55,000 Jews that once lived in Yemen, and this is not only inaccurate, but extremely lame. Don’t get me wrong, the Yemenite Jews have a long and disgusting history of persecution in Yemen, that still persists to this day at the hands of the Houthis; nobody is arguing against that. But if 54,000 of th
So if you force an ethnic group to leave by making his life miserable if he doesn't, that's not ethnic cleansing?
Zaydi Shias have existed for quite a while in Yemen btw
Israel used an ambulance to infiltrate and execute an 80 year old women. shot her 6 times. these are Western values.
They are Western values if she was black, and Palestinians are the black people of the ME so I guess it's consistent.
Well that's a shock.
There are still zero complainants in alleged cases of rapes committed by Palestinians on 7 October 2023, an Israeli prosecutor has admitted.
But Moran Gez, who handled cases against Palestinians swept up after the Al-Aqsa Flood operation, is still calling for mass executions even without any substantial evidence against them.
“Anyone who entered Israel from Gaza on 7 October to kill or to loot, it doesn’t matter, should be included in the indictment and, as far as I’m concerned, receive the death penalty,” Gez said.
She said she made this case to colleagues involved in planning prosecutions related to the 7 October events.
“Why? Because of those who didn’t murder but looted, burned, stole, picked avocados, as some claim, because of this mess, the Israeli army forces were unable to arrive in time,” Gez added. “You came to the door with a drill and opened it to loot? Then a terrorist came in and murdered civilians there.”
Until recently the prosecutor in charge of so-called security cases in Israel’s southern district, Gez played a key role in the effort to put Palestinians responsible for what Israel considers criminal acts on 7 October on trial.
No trials have yet taken place.
Gez made her comments in an interview with the magazine of Israeli mass circulation newspaper Yedioth Ahronoth, published on 1 January 2025.
So if you force an ethnic group to leave by making his life miserable if he doesn't, that's not ethnic cleansing?
Zaydi Shias have existed for quite a while in Yemen btw
Do I seriously have to spell every single thing out for you?
Nobody is denying the persecution of Yemenite Jews. Their plight is a sad and disgusting reality.
There were 55,000 Jews living in Yemen in 1948, if you can even call that living based on the persecution against them. Between 1948-1951 54,000 of them were airlifted to Israel. The remainder stayed and continued to struggle to exist despite the persecution against them. Today, the Yemenite Jews are all but extinct from Yemen due to their continued ethnic cleansing from those lands.
This is a factual account of their existence.
They are staunch supporters of Israel's right to exist unlike many in this thread
But they are not supporters of Israeli settlements or expansion and have been strong supporters of a 2 state solution
Very much in line with their “tireless work to bring an end to the war” by sending record breaking amounts of weapons to the offensive military, a very interesting way to “support a 2 state solution” by abstaining from or vetoing every single UN resolution concerning Israel
Do I seriously have to spell every single thing out for you? Nobody is denying the persecution of Yemenite Jews. Their plight is a sad and disgusting reality. There were 55,000 Jews living in Yemen in 1948, if you can even call that living based on the persecution against them. Between 1948-1951 54,000 of them were airlifted to Israel. The remainder stayed and continued to stru
They fled from persecution and didn't claim Yemen as their home decades later.
They found a home within a population that majoritarianly shares their ethnicity, culture, religion and so on.
Which is what people in gaza and the west bank should have done a long ago after they lost their futile attempts at war and at controlling those areas. Unpile for jews which have only 1 place in the whole world they can find a majority of themselves in, arabs in gaza and the west bank have plenty of options : countries with the same language, religion, cultural attitudes and so on.
They also have the money to move (we are paying billions to them every year for decades), and they should just move if they feel persecuted, like jews everywhere in muslim-majority countries did.
They fled from persecution and didn't claim Yemen as their home decades later. They found a home within a population that majoritarianly shares their ethnicity, culture, religion and so on.Which is what people in gaza and the west bank should have done a long ago after they lost their futile attempts at war and at controlling those areas. Unpile for jews which have only 1 place
Thanks for showing your true colours, not that there was ever any doubt.
Also, the word you’re looking for is majoritarily.
This is a bad post. Hamas will have to agree to disband and its leaders going into exile, or there will be no peace, and the occupation will continue indefinitely. It is simply a matter of how much pain Hamas is willing to inflict on the Palestinians for their own selfish ends before this happens. And how long outside actors like Qatar and Turkey will keep propping them up.
Of course they have the power to glass Gaza, and you are very correct that the optics from the international community play a big role. The point is that the road to ethnic cleansing is a slippery slope, and requires justifications for each little advance in what is necessary.
There is no small advance in the univability of Gaza that pro-Israel posters in this thread won't justify, and when you take this to its logical conclusion, you have ethnic cleansing.
The guys who are actually in power--Smolitch, Givr--admit that this is an aim.
Thank you for the ad hominem. See my reply to Dunyain for my views on why we are on the slippery slope to ethnic cleansing.
Regarding the tunnels, my point is that engineering ops are not nearly enough to get the job done. Bigger sacrifices are necessary to 'eradicate Hamas,' i.e. sending units into the belly of the beast, getting to a similar level of knowledge of the system as the enemy, and taking control of the terrain below Gaza--which they don't do. As of now the goal is to expand the Netzarim/Philadephi corridors to the point that they're out of sniper range, and then do whatever can be done with engineering ops with whatever tunnels they find.
The corridors will have to encompass all of Gaza in order for this to be effective (hence my ethnic cleansing argument), and even that might not be enough.
