Donald J. Trump (For everyone else except Victor)

It's democracy (if memory serves, you think it's illusory and both sides are basically the same?)... even if there are a lot of greased wheels.

It's not about technology, it's about human nature. That's what he has the most insight into. Do you disagree w/ something in the video?

It's more like an oligarchy or plutocracy masquerading as a democracy.

The ruling elite are smart enough to understand that people hate them and want change so they're busy installing their own anti-elite pseudo-tyrants, which is what Trump is.

And that's something that Plato couldn't have foreseen.

Yes the characterization of Trump as this anti-elite demagogue is not accurate, as I've tried to explain a couple times now.

this so much

a lot of academia is just a leftist circle jerk - as a social sciences major it was pretty wild witnessing the academia echo chamber

my favorite part was when our class reading was "nickel and dimed"

where this well to do woman from academia decided to cosplay as a poor for 3 months and work minimum wage jobs and report back and the entire thing to me was kind of hilarious seeing her wild interpretations and takes and how everything was framed as being evil and all the min wage workers were victims - i read it and thought wtf is this and went into class expecting everyone else to be like "who tf is this person"

and then when i got to class, i realized that i was literally the only person in class who had any experience in that realm of the real world, for everyone else, this was their first exposure and they had no personal experience to counter her insanity and not only that, but it confirmed everything they previously believed that the poor are all societal victims - which is true to a point, but a lot of them are addicts, welfare grifting, or just plain lacking in ambition (the vast majority) - when you grow up with parents who work min wage and your neighbors do as well, that's the baseline expectation - much of poverty is cultural

despite that i was literally the only one who'd ever worked a min wage job in the class, my refutation of her absurd takes were all shot down and poo-pooed because someone else tried it for 3 months with the sole purpose of writing a book about how unfair life was for the poors and thus her work which was done with an agenda from the outset (she was a member of the socialist party) was given more credence than someone who actually lived that life and while my own family was unaffected, nearly all my friends growing up were children of min wage workers

my favorite part of this commencement speech (which is amazing btw you should all listen to it) is when he starts giving them an example of bad thoughts to have where he links driving a gas guzzling suv with being a bad person and the students cheer loudly mid speech anyway because it's what they want to hear and he needs to pause and remind them that is in fact an example of how not to think

and as we see with ample examples in these threads, being smart doesn't mean someone isn't detached from reality in moments, tons of highly intelligent people here with god awful interpretations of things because they've been conditioned to view things in that light

lol take another L

he's a us citizen who's spent majority of his life living in the usa

he constantly talks/tweets about politics, in fact he says the major motivation for getting citizenship was to vote against trump

In fairness you didn't explain, you just called Trump a pseudo-tyrant w/o really explaining what that means.

Just so we're on the same page, this is the definition of a demagogue:
A demagogue is a political leader who gains power by appealing to people's emotions, fears, and prejudices rather than using rational arguments or policies. Demagogues often manipulate public sentiment through populist rhetoric, scapegoating, and promises that are unrealistic or misleading.

So you don't think that fits Trump? It doesn't matter who installed him. That's not really the point... he's slowly made people bend the knee to him. First the Republican party, then the oligarchs. We're not all the way there yet in this story. And it may be true that Trump is too incompetent to get them to fully bend like a Putin or an Orbán, but I'd bet a nickel he desires that.

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showp...

I'm aware Daniel tweets a lot about politics... I remember reading his back and forth w/ Mike the mouth several years back... but like I said, he's not aware, and he's badly misinformed imho. The tweet posted is just more proof of that. Democratic positions are not unpopular, it's quite the opposite. The only fringe issue that isn't, is trans issues.

I think that fits the totality of elected politician in democracy history. The masses are never convinced through detached rationality. There is ALWAYS an appeal to emotions. Every single time, nothing else works to motivate the masses.

And even among educated, higher than median IQ, only a minority are actually motivated by rationality in general. Rationality simply isn't what the vast majority of human beings in the vast majority of cases, cares about

quite the goal post shift fd, obviously you're never wrong, in fact you've never once been wrong of course

Nowhere can even begin to try the socialist utopia approach because that involves taxes at levels that people aren't prepared to pay, with state sponsored charity and generosity that many find unpalatable. What you've seen is the capitalist approach fail over and over again, and its hilarious you don't get this while lashing out wildly.

I'm sure Captain Capitalism himself will be the solution this second time around though. It went really well the first time!

Somewhat true.. but historically in American politics, Democrats have been accused of being eggheads, and too policy wonkish to voters. You can ask Al Gore all about this.

It's a known problem in democratic politics... not that they don't use these tactics sometimes as well, but Republicans have done a vastly better job at emotionally driven politics (primarily using fear).

That's why we're here right now.

Winning

Not doing this with you. Not interested. Move on. You have issues I'm not interested in engaging with.

I've posted many times in here where I've been wrong, and I usually use the words... "I stand corrected". Literally like the post I just quoted.

I was wrong that Daniel isn't an American citizen. He got his citizenship in 2016.

Speaking from personal experience, it wasn't college that turned me more liberal, it was being in the trenches here and being forced to look at statistics around immigration.

Once I was confronted with the proof that my ingrained assumptions were wrong it opened pandoras box for confirmation on everything else. That process generally takes some introspection though, which is generally much harder than endless extrospection.

Let's see what the "party of rationality" did recently, what the "policy wonkish" did.

super rational, no appeal to random belly emotions of the low IQ masses, perfectly fine rational nerds just writing pages and pages of policy sure

According to FD , Trump won because democrats didn't shout "wakanda forever" hard enough

Re-post this, because you missed this:
Somewhat true.. but historically in American politics, Democrats have been accused of being eggheads, and too policy wonkish to voters. You can ask Al Gore all about this.

I'm not going to bother to post Republican ads.

You don't live in America, so you don't hear these things. You can ask people who watch policy scope analysis, and this is what has been said about the Democratic party for decades... that they have good ideas, but are too wonkish when trying to explain them.

These are the main policy platforms of the Democratic party. Do you disagree with this info... and if all of these are their core platform, and they are popular, what happened?

Healthcare Reform

Policy Position: Advocates for expanding access to affordable healthcare, including the implementation of a public health insurance option.

Public Support: A Gallup poll from December 2024 found that 62% of U.S. adults believe it is the government's responsibility to provide healthcare coverage, marking the highest level of support in over a decade.
NEWS.GALLUP.COM

Climate Change and Environmental Policy

Policy Position: Supports rejoining international climate agreements, investing in renewable energy, and implementing policies to reduce carbon emissions.

Public Support: A Pew Research Center survey from April 2024 indicates that a majority of Americans prioritize environmental protection, with 60% supporting stricter environmental regulations.
PEWRESEARCH.ORG

Economic Inequality

Policy Position: Proposes measures such as raising the federal minimum wage, expanding tax credits for low- and middle-income families, and ensuring fair taxation.

Public Support: A 2024 survey by the Public Religion Research Institute found that 66% of Americans support raising the federal minimum wage to $15 per hour.

Criminal Justice Reform

Policy Position: Advocates for comprehensive reforms, including addressing systemic racism, reducing mass incarceration, and promoting rehabilitation over punishment.

Public Support: A Gallup poll from 2024 indicates that 58% of Americans believe the criminal justice system needs major reforms, reflecting support for changes in this area.

Education

Policy Position: Supports increased funding for public schools, making higher education more accessible and affordable, and investing in early childhood education.

Public Support: According to a 2024 survey by the National Center for Education Statistics, 72% of Americans favor increased federal funding for public education.

Immigration Reform

Policy Position: Advocates for comprehensive immigration reform, including a pathway to citizenship for undocumented immigrants and humane border policies.

Public Support: A Pew Research Center survey from 2024 found that 69% of Americans support providing a pathway to citizenship for undocumented immigrants.
PEWRESEARCH.ORG

Gun Control

Policy Position: Supports implementing measures such as universal background checks, banning assault weapons, and closing loopholes in gun sales.

Public Support: A Gallup poll from 2024 indicates that 57% of Americans support stricter gun control laws.

LGBTQ+ Rights

Policy Position: Advocates for the protection and expansion of rights for LGBTQ+ individuals, including anti-discrimination laws and marriage equality.

Public Support: A 2023 Gallup poll found that 71% of Americans support same-sex marriage, reflecting broad support for LGBTQ+ rights.

Reproductive Rights

Policy Position: Supports protecting the right to choose and ensuring access to reproductive healthcare services.

Public Support: A 2024 Pew Research Center survey indicates that 61% of Americans believe abortion should be legal in all or most cases.
PEWRESEARCH.ORG

Voting Rights

Policy Position: Advocates for expanding access to voting, protecting against voter suppression, and implementing reforms to ensure fair elections.

Public Support: A Data for Progress survey found that 67% of American voters support the Freedom to Vote Act, which aims to set national standards for early voting, mail-in voting, and voter registration.

Only accused? Lol

How about they are eggheads?

Eggs up %50 from 2 year ago, how much are eggs at your location?

I wouldn't underestimate xenophobia as a driver of a lot of conservative success, some of its firebrands and their statements would fit in nicely with some rather notorious regimes.

However, the US is more than big enough for this to be true in some places and not others.

There seems to exists for American liberals an offputting expectation that they are owed votes by marginalized groups and certain ethnicities, and that individuals who do not follow that pattern are being stupid and voting against their self-interest. There is also definitely a pattern of "middle class leftism", with commentary that is oblivious to the reality of others.

This sort of infantilization is not a good look, and I suspect that it drives a lot of people away.

Still, I think this debate is rather marginal in its importance. American politics these days is determined on social media, and reality doesn't really play much of a part. Right now, this favors Trumpism, because fabrication and falsehood is an easier path to engagement, front pages, views and likes. The political risk is negligible, simply due to how social media algorithms work and no real visible way to display distrust or dislike that actually matters.

your premise was that he's a canadian who knows nothing of american politics

he's in fact an american and american politics is his biggest obsession outside of poker

you then couch it as "but he is not well informed" which is an entirely different argument than the one you set out making

it is the very definition of a goal post shift, but you'll obviously never see it that way for reasons we both know and deflect it as my own personal issue as it couldn't possibly be yours because you have none, again for reasons we both know

When asked about more stuff to them ask them if they are willing to pay more taxes, otherwise the question is in bad faith. Education, healthcare cost money: americans answer they want more free healthcare and education, but refuse to pay for it. So they REFUSE the democratis policies.

For the rest, you decided to put the answer to stuff which isn't the only question. On immigration for example, majorities are in favor of the deportation of illegals. On LGBTQ issues, majorities are against biological men in women sports, prisons, locker rooms.

The minimum wage can be raised at the state level as it already happened btw. Why isn't it $15 in every single state democrats control? it's $12 in New Mexico, don't your party control NM ? if they don't raise it to 15, that tells us they don't actually believe that so you can't use that as a democratic party platform policy.

Abortion is a state matter. 61% prefer it, and wherever they are the majority they can get that in their state.

Curious you cited voting rights where americans overwhelmingly prefer mandatory ID to vote, which is the republican position, violently opposed by democrats, yet you didn't mention it. But again that's a state matter.

Btw freakdaddy, promising free stuff without paying the price is the GOLDEN DEMAGOGUE PROMISE. Nothing can beat it. Promising free stuff and "others pays" is demagoguery 101, and that's structurally what the left always does (which is why the left is ALWAYS more populist definitionally than the right everywhere, it's their freaking basic ideological pillar to steal from the few and give free stuff to the masses).