Patrick Leonard stating the hard truth "you cannot longer make it in online poker"

What am I making up? $80Kpa whilst it might be in the top 1% in the UK is not 1) guaranteed 2) a lot of money in the great scheme of things 3) unlikely to remain something feasible given the environment. Not sure you understand what making things up means, I didnt say you couldnt make 80kpa nor that it wasnt in the 1% of UK earners? Its just not alot of money in say London, I guess that's subjective depending on your lifestyle, whatever someone who profits 80kpa playing online poker is better off doing something else in 2025, where the ceiling is higher.

Good for people making bank (if you consider making 80kpa is making bank) playing online poker, it doesnt tilt me qite the opposite I respect it, they are just few and far between. I'm not going to go into much personal stuff on here but I made vastly more than that per year when I relied on it for over a decade, you can choose to belive me or not, I also ventured into more lucrative areas in life whilst still enjoying/hating poker. My post was more words of warning to people ploughing their time and energy into something that is essentially a waste of time, and not guaranteed anymore and is much harder than it used to be - inline with what Pads said.

Read. The. Quoted. Posts.

Are you intoxicated? I'm done here.

Not intoxicated yet. Maybe that's the issue. Or maybe you have your wires crossed. Anyway, the objective fact of making 80k being 1% in UK I didnt question. I just dont think its alot of money, its like £60K net, that being 'bank' as you call is, thats subjective. I didnt make up anything in my original post so I dont really understand how its ironic or I made stuff up. Cya.

Turns out I am not done.

I didn't say 80k/year is making bank. I said you are on tilt because you're not making bank when others are.

Stop making things up or I will be forced to chime in again. Step away from the keyboard for an hour or two, dude.

100/hr partime is nothing to be sniffed at at all, wp. But yeh you are running well too. Which sites are you playing?

And that is you making things up.

This will be an easy one to clear up! Post graph of the past 12 months. Also divulge on what sites you play.

Spoiler

Show

No thanks, you can be into dick measuring contests if you likeand post yours though - but where did I say I made bank playing poker in the last 12 months, its not my living anymore, if anything I've said its harder than ever. But given you think making 80kpa is bank I know for a fact I've made alot more from poker than you, ainec so that's pleasant to know when its no longer my main living.

I am not quite sure how we settle this.

For those who don't remember. There was a guy who posted on these forums many years ago, a reputable coach around here who spoke like you guys and turned out to be a fraud. (Faked results. Claimed to know the game to a super high level. Played microstakes. Whatever whatever.)

And this was 15 years ago when online poker was relatively a cake walk.

If you're a crusher post the results.

And if you're a fake GTFO the thread!!!

Exactly. I never proclaimed to be a modern day crusher not once in any of my posts here. I made a lot of money from poker in the years I stated in my post. I no longer make what I would consider 'bank' or to make it worthwhile and therefore I warned others. I listed the reasons for this - plus I was never elite, I was (still am) a midstakes bumhunter who ran very well when I played for a living. Masta does however think hes a modern day crusher, cool, he can post his stuff. I cant believe I am even writing this BS here lol.

I’m still laughing at the 200nl super players who make no mistakes

In fairness I did specifically say '200-1k' wizards not just 200nl. In my experience, they seem to play very well the regs that populate all those stakes, much moreso than they used to be, thats surely common knowledge. Make no mistakes was an exaggeration but enough to make a living from is hard work imo. You can tell who is butthurt that still plays 200nl for a living though and thinks 80kpa is bank.

I made no mention of whether I'm making bank or not. Not sure why you are inferring I did.

That is my case. As you can see I am resting it.

I think you're off your meds or something, what a lunatic. GL either way.

yeah idk. alot of upsides and downsides to gambling for a living, as there are in anything. i do think these threads (and potentially this forum) end up populated by people that are bitter towards poker.

i think there are better avenues to pursue is financial compensation is the biggest driver of your values, but honestly the world is changing quite rapidly and i think the amount of time it would take to start a new career path and make 100k a year is quite a bit more intensive than people in this thread are (disingenuously) making it out to be.

Cant argue with that, especially if you are actually netting 100kpa consistently over a large sample it's hard to give it up. I just doubt there's as many consistent winners like there used to be, and the ceiling is lower on earnings. Starting a new career or business is pretty fkn hard and also not guaranteed either at all yes I'm contradicting myself.

if you find the right spot to play it's not too hard to make 6 figures nowadays, at least from my perspective

that said it does feel like as a career this is a pretty bad idea right now, because poker is not going to get better with time, whereas if you pick an actual career, then you're most likely going up

so unlike pads I wouldn't say you CAN'T make it but I wouldn't recommend it

My idea of making it as a pro is to be able to make enough to live out of the high roller suite, eating at the 4 star casino steakhouse everyday and basically just spend my days walking back and forth from the poker room to my high roller suite. Is this not feasable? I am starting to get the impression it isn't after reading this thread.

100K may not be garbage, but it is pretty crappy in most parts of the US. The only thing my post addressed of yours was the uneducated and unfounded 'opinion' of yours about the amount being 2.5X more. The motivation part was not addressed at you, although you do seem to fit into that category based on your posts, as I was referring to all of the posters talking about doing just fine grinding and making 60K, 80K, 100K, etc.

As others posted, so many are leaving out the benefits factor with most real jobs, especially the health insurance. For me and my family, it is just under 30K per year! I cover 70% through my company and pay 30% on my personal payroll. That is another 21K in covered expenses. No retirement plan or other investments since you are just getting by? Good luck with that after grinding for 20 years to make just enough money to get by and live 'OK'. Now your in your mid 40's or so, have no relatable job experience, no investments, and nothing to fall back on. But hey, you made 80K to 100K playing a game for 20 years. Congrats!

This is not a knock on poker. I love the game, but other than the rare few and your not making 200K-300K+/yr and managing your finances properly on top of that, YOUR NOT A PROFESSIONAL POKER PLAYER. Your chasing a dream and ruining your life. Do something outside of poker as your main source of income and play poker as your side hustle. Otherwise your just delusional. Online is completely dead for 95%+ of players. If you want to make sustainable money as a side hustle then play live. Poker is infinitely better as a side hustle/hobby!

He just seems disingenuous. He says different things in similar situations involving different people. Why is he running a stable still if he truly believes what he says? A stable is already a hard business to run in a good poker environment because of degens quitting on you, or refusing to pay what they owe with you having little recourse to get paid. If he truly believes what he says he would shut down his stable as theres 0 percent chance it is a profitable venture when "you cannot make it in online poker".

Maybe they are "fierce competitors".

You can very clearly still make it in online poker if you're allowed to play with US players.

Stars, GG, dunno. American-facing sites feature many fish at all levels. We are a very deeply stupid people with mountains of money burning holes in our pockets.

Very good point. When someone says one thing but does the opposite with their business interests you probably shouldn't believe what they say

Averaging more than $10,000 per year playing any form of poker is a sign of a great player.

Being able to live off your winnings is extraneous. I know that's the old school definition of a professional poker player, and topic at hand.