Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]
Not surprising, Trump's cabinet is walking the Gaza idea back slowly, lol.
But today I learned that:
-30% of Gazans want to willingly emigrate elsewhere
-The life span in Gaza BEFORE Oct 7th was longer than in Alabama or Mississippi
-HAMAS had and has tight restrictions on letting people leave Gaza. It was not an open air prison, Hamas absolutely made it imperative that very few people leave. That was totally new information to me. They absolutely will try to stop anyone that wants to leave for a safer place.
-The life span in Gaza BEFORE Oct 7th was longer than in Alabama or Mississippi
Spoiler
we did it Joe!
Not surprising, Trump's cabinet is walking the Gaza idea back slowly, lol.
hmm, what happened to all the chicken slaughter metaphors...
I dont know who NormFinkelstein is, but the idea that Mets would make an alt to come in off the top ropes to argue Israel is acting out of line in the West Bank is pretty ridiculous.
Anyways, my 2c is I think NormFinkelstein was contributing fine in this forum, and should be unbanned.
I think you should show your work on this.The most deadly conflicts in Africa:Conquests of Menalik II, 1878-1904, 6 millionSecond Congo War, 1998-2003, 5.25 millionNigerian Civil War, 1967-1970, 3-4 millionEthiopian Civil war, 1961-1991, 2 millionSecond Sudanese Civil War, 1983-2005, 1-2 millionAlgerian War, 1954-1962, .4-1.2 millionFrench conquest of Algeria, 1830-1903, 1-1.5
China is just getting started. I am making a prediction about the future. Lets see how the next few decades play out.
China and Russia are fairly active blocking UN resolutions meant to stabilize the region, in favor of supporting military juntas they have favorable relationships with. I dont predict this will work in favor of the people of Africa.
I don't really know, but if you did a survey I would guess that the typical Hamas member hates Jews. It's also my personal experience that more than half of Israeli Jews hate Arabs.
It is almost like making Palestinians permanent refugees generationally, sticking them right on the border of Israel, pumping them with anti-Israel propaganda, refusing to let them leave, and then legitimizing and funding bad actors that perpetuate war to consolidate their own wealth and power is not a recipe for reconciliation. Who knew?
We've already demonstrated to anybody who appreciates language that what Israel is doing is genocide according to the commonly accepted definition of that word. If you disagree, you're wrong. Don't have to take it from me -- look it up!
No you haven't, no they aren't, yes I do and no I'm not.
I obviously disagree with you on the Israel-Palestine issue and agree mostly or completely with Trolly... but yes, "incredible how quickly you guys break down" is his go-to-line whenever somebody gets emotional about something. You see, Trolly is highly sociopathic in nature; for him, the whole point is to get people mad and then make fun of them for demonstrating human emotion. This is also why he is, by a real margin, the most dishonest poster I have ever encountered on the internet -- making honest and/or intelligent arguments is wholly beside the point.
....Goddammit why do you then have to come out with occasional astute observations, making me reassess you and less prone to outright dismiss you?
It is almost like making Palestinians permanent refugees generationally, sticking them right on the border of Israel, pumping them with anti-Israel propaganda, refusing to let them leave, and then legitimizing and funding bad actors that perpetuate war to consolidate their own wealth and power is not a recipe for reconciliation. Who knew?
I just don't know how anyone can argue with this post.
Can the US stop funding all this please and thanks.
AIPAC clearly owns our politicians.
What are people’s thoughts on the Hannibal directive?
It is almost like making Palestinians permanent refugees generationally, sticking them right on the border of Israel, pumping them with anti-Israel propaganda, refusing to let them leave, and then legitimizing and funding bad actors that perpetuate war to consolidate their own wealth and power is not a recipe for reconciliation. Who knew?
This is why Trump taking Gaza makes sense. At some point an adult needs to step in and make the decisions. I have always said there will need to be a paradigm shift in order for things to get better. I had hoped it was the Gazans who would make this shift. Unfortunately it looks like Trump is having to step in to make this happen. Sometimes people just need a direction. I always felt a leader would need to step up. It would have been better if it was someone from within Gaza but thank goodness for Trump. Not only is he about to win the Nobel Peace Prize he is also about to be put onto Mt Rushmore.
This is why Trump taking Gaza makes sense. At some point an adult needs to step in and make the decisions. I have always said there will need to be a paradigm shift in order for things to get better. I had hoped it was the Gazans who would make this shift. Unfortunately it looks like Trump is having to step in to make this happen. Sometimes people just need a direction. I alway
Making sense isn't really a strong suit for the 3rd world, ESPECIALLY when it comes to this conflict. The 3rd world seems pretty committed to not wanting to give Israel or the US a W, at any cost. I dont think any Gazans leave in any appreciable numbers, and there wont be any meaningful development or reform of Gaza society.
I think there will be some superficial improvements, Trump will give himself the W, and things will go back to how they were before. Except Israel is not going to let Hamas rebuild their terror infrastructure. They can bully and hold down the Palestinians all they want, and steal all the aid and fuel they want; but they wont be allowed to rebuild their heavy war machine.
I don't know what Trump can offer the whole Arab world (the ones whose influence matters) to get onside with essentially betraying one of the most agreed upon "look the other ways" in the region.
Lots of Muslim countries were fine not getting involved, but with the express understanding that everyone agreed that the Palestinians being there served a vital purpose for Islam. Trump doesn't want to use tax dollars here, or rather he can't. So what the heck can he offer? It's hard to come up with a realistic offer that makes so many people betray the Palestinians.
If you can convince me, I'm ready to be convinced. Certainly most of Israel is fine with the USA taking it. The Israeli far LEFT agreed. There's one guy in the Knesset on record being against it I believe. ONE (Blue can correct me if he's not banned).
Hamas told Eli Sharabi at his release send off that he was going to see his wife and daughters (who of course died Oct 7th, but he didn't know that). Or Levy was kidnapped barefoot. He stayed barefoot for 491 days, and they let him shower once every few months. he lost 44 pounds in captivity. He was one of the healthier ones Hamas decided the public could see. Alon Ohel is still captive, and has been in chains and starved the whole time.
So yeah, it's not surprising that when you treat Jews like it's Auschwitz, the whole country is ready for the USA to become the new neighbor. But I just don't see the mechanism. Do you?
It couldn't happen without Saudi Arabia and even though the hard right-wing government in SA would probably be ok with it in theory, SA is not an entirely stable country and it couldn't afford the internal unrest that would ensue.
Not all of Gaza anyway. I think taking part is possible.
It couldn't happen without Saudi Arabia and even though the hard right-wing government in SA would probably be ok with it in theory, SA is not an entirely stable country and it couldn't afford the internal unrest that would ensue.
Not all of Gaza anyway. I think taking part is possible.
I don't think that's true any longer. But they're also the most likely to say yes.
It's getting Jordan, Egypt, etc onside. Which seems almost impossible to me. If Jordan and Egypt say yes, it's happening. But what can they possibly be bribed with? Massive Tesla plant and server farms in the Sinai? I mean I suppose? I don't think it's enough.
When you just look at the numbers of barrels of oil it seems like USA is fine, but the production cost of a barrel of oil in SA is about $10 and in the USA it's about $36 and that includes legacy easier oil. Fracked oil costs about $50/barrel. So, even though USA produces slightly more oil than SA, SA's oil is worth a lot more and replacing Saudi oil with North American oil drives up the price.
And, like I said, they give more support to Israel than most Arab countries because Israel functions in the Monarchy's interests. But, also, people ignore the internals of SA. They aren't great. They have large upset minority groups they are afraid will align with Iran and the largest and most upset of them happen to live in the oil rich areas.
All that matters is what THEY get Micro. Nvidia expansion to SA? Plus a weapons deal?
I think they're the easiest to satisfy.
so in the last hour hamas broke the ceasefire by attacking themselves and killing a boy and an American aircraft carrier ran over a ship. and trump is 1 hour late on his "big one"
"the deliberate and systematic destruction of a racial, political, or cultural group"
'Raphael Lemkin, who first coined the term, defined genocide as "the destruction of a nation or of an ethnic group" by means such as "the disintegration of [its] political and social institutions, of [its] culture, language, national feelings, religion, and [its] economic existence"'
Clearly a genocide. People who disagree (and aren't raving Zionists) must be thinking about The Holocaust and assuming that a genocide necessitates the murder of millions. The term is defined quite a bit more broadly than that.
All that matters is what THEY get Micro. Nvidia expansion to SA? Plus a weapons deal?
I think they're the easiest to satisfy.
Like I don't really know, and you could be right, but I think this map is important to SA and they are concerned with how any more and open alignment with Israel builds support for Iran internally.
So by your own rationale, Hamas attempted genocide on October 07 (as in the attempted genocide you opined was cool) and have genocidal intentions via their desire for the destruction of Israel in their charter, glad we got that sorted. And Israel have attempted to minimise civilian deaths, so yet again, you're spectacularly wrong. As usual.
Face palm all you want. Won't nullify the fact that Israel attempt to minimise civilian casualties. You made a nazi book burning reference quite recently and you're the one always banging on about "hasbara", so I'm not really interested in your Israel-Bad-Forever-and-Ever-Amen opinion.
so in the last hour hamas broke the ceasefire by attacking themselves and killing a boy and an American aircraft carrier ran over a ship. and trump is 1 hour late on his "big one"
In fairness We have no clue who fired the rocket. Could be any of 100 different militant groups. Or even just a couple civilians who got their hands on a rocket launcher.
This is course is another reason to be extremely pessimistic Palestinians will ever form a functional state, even in some hypothetical there was a government on board with one.
Because Palestinian society is so radicalized, militarized, and the tremendous amount of corruption and foreign influence; militant groups will always have veto power to derail any peace process.
or it could have been some of the thousands of unexploded ordinance from duds or intentional booby traps left over by the genocidal invaders.
