Cheating on the gulf coast
What exactly is going on down south, the same stable of players literally has won every event for the past year.. i know
The same people making these final tables with over 3000 entrants must be the greatest tournament players in history!!!! Are the same dealers used at all the final tables?
Well, I'm back. There was definitely some cheatin' going on - I caught them twice trying to take my money on a push. But I didn't catch 'em enough times time, so I dropped about a k. Bastards!!!
Cheating has been a part of poker since its inception, so it’s naive to make definitive claims that nothing nefarious could be going on. It has always been the players and not the operators who uncover illicit play, and this will continue to be the case. We must police ourselves because, unfortunately, to most operators, floor staff, and tournament directors, we are just a means to put money in their pockets. The rake continues to go up, service and quality declines, and dealer get worse.
Poker is complex, plays can be ambiguous and proving cheating without finding a faulty deck, or catching a mechanic dealer in the act is almost impossible. Even in crazy cases like the Mike Postle, and to a less extent the Robbie jade Lew controversies nothing was definitively proven. I agree with what some other posters have said, I saw weird shuffles going on from one dealer, and he was experienced, but I wasn't 100% sure. It was different from what you would see from a new/bad dealer. The adage “where there’s smoke, there’s fire” often holds true, and we should remain vigilant. One change that could be implemented in tournaments to address this issue is requiring the disclosure of stable members to both the staff and the public. During registration or whenever possible, seat these guys at different tables. In cases where it’s unavoidable, player awareness would potentially deter collusion or other shady tactics.
Aside from that, there are other security issues with phones on the rail and glasses being worn—both need to be banned.
What other ideas can we bring to the table?
https://x.com/GenglesPoker/status/189745...
Bad timing for Maurice(formerly in this stable, possibly still is) , the allegations and this thread
That's an awfully quick muck by the dealer...
https://x.com/GenglesPoker/status/189745...
Bad timing for Maurice(formerly in this stable, possibly still is) , the allegations and this thread
That's an awfully quick muck by the dealer...
It's hard to imagine that a dealer would knowingly push the pot to the wrong person in that situation. He has to see that the hand is being recorded by a reporter, right?
That being said it is quite a coincidence that the person benefiting from the "mistake" is associated with this stable who has been accused of working with dealers to cheat.
The video is available here:
Yeah its pretty awful timing. Dealer just pushing the pot to Maurice as a scam fully relies on the actual hand winner to either not know his hand or just not dispute that he actually won
Either would be a ridiculous assumption to make to cheat
Couldn't have happened to a less deserving person
Yeah its pretty awful timing. Dealer just pushing the pot to Maurice as a scam fully relies on the actual hand winner to either not know his hand or just not dispute that he actually won
Either would be a ridiculous assumption to make to cheat
Couldn't have happened to a less deserving person
Agreed but just playing devil's advocate, if the dealer was doing it intentionally it's pretty easy for him to just play dumb if he gets called out.
If you watch the video the dealer very quickly flips down the losing (winning) hand, but he doesn't immediately pull it into the muck. If the third place finisher had started protesting that he had a flush, the dealer would have just flipped his hand back up and said, "Oh you're right. My mistake," and pushed him the pot.
I'm not saying I think what the dealer did was intentional, but the fact that Maurice Hawkins was the beneficiary at least makes you wonder.
When the player says "I thought I won" that should be enough to qualify as protesting the result, right? At that point the dealer could have easily flipped up the hand... Why didn't he? He's a seasoned WSOP floor in Vegas
I played some tourneys at this stop. That dealer was checked out and misdealt twice in a row at one of my tables. It would not surprise me if there was more to this than just negligence.
When the player says "I thought I won" that should be enough to qualify as protesting the result, right? At that point the dealer could have easily flipped up the hand... Why didn't he? He's a seasoned WSOP floor in Vegas
He says "i thought I won, I didn't see the straight" not "I thought I won, I thought I had a flush" so he really wasn't protesting. If he said "i thought I won" and protested they would have turned his hand over.
It definitely seemed like the player was nervous and afraid to speak up. That doesn't totally change anything, but you seem bashful players act in accordance with his energy.
He says "i thought I won, I didn't see the straight" not "I thought I won, I thought I had a flush" so he really wasn't protesting. If he said "i thought I won" and protested they would have turned his hand over.
This! There is a lot of chatter online acting like the player is saying "wait I won" or similar, he clearly in his tone and comment is indicating he missed the running straight. I'm sure he was just in his head going "no ace no ace no ace no ace" and when it doesn't come, thought his pair of tens was good.
Also a lot of chatter about how fast the hand got mucked, but it seems pretty standard to me also. Obv sometimes it is slower, but tons of times the runout, muck, and pot push is rapid. If the river was an offsuit card such that Maurice actually won and the video was posted, literally zero people would be like "oh wow look how quickly the other hand got mucked"
As far as the nervousness, that def seemed more the embarassment of "whoops missed that" like when a guy needs a flush, hits the flush but it gives his opponent a boat and he celebrates briefly before realizing. It's embarassing.
the one time when "you lost bro" isn't valid :(
Let's not forget about the other players at the table, you know some of them saw the flush. But none of them wanted to say anything because a knockout means more money in their pocket.
If the situation were reversed where Maurice had the winning hand but the dealer tried to push the pot to the all in, every single player would have stopped him instantly.
People are pathetic, that's why dogs rule.
Let's not forget about the other players at the table, you know some of them saw the flush. But none of them wanted to say anything because a knockout means more money in their pocket.If the situation were reversed where Maurice had the winning hand but the dealer tried to push the pot to the all in, every single player would have stopped him instantly.People are pathetic, tha
it was 3 handed. just one other player. and he has a huge incentive to say nothing.
He says "i thought I won, I didn't see the straight" not "I thought I won, I thought I had a flush" so he really wasn't protesting. If he said "i thought I won" and protested they would have turned his hand over.
You are hearing different than me. I hear "Oh ****, I thought I won...OK".
He doesn't say anything about the straight until pointed out and he is walking or nearly walking away.
There is also the person (I assume Hawkins) talking about outs and then saying he outed him. This is obviously wrong but it might have influenced the dealer. In fact I would say it did. And I also bet Hawkins knew it was a dirty out.
I still think if felted player ask for floor, he wins. I think the dealer should have turned his hand back over even with his mild protest. I have always seen (if the cards are availble, the to be mucked hand retabled by dealer to explain the situation.
I am NOT going to say this was intentional or cheating. Definitely I am not going to say the dealer was in on it. I will say that I would bet Hawkins knew he lost, said he outed the guy hoping this exact thing would happen.
Is that cheating. No not really IMO. But it does make him that much more a DB. Which from what I hear is pretty darn difficult to do in his case.
As to the muck speed, I see nothing there. Actually slower than some of the dealers I see. But these are cash games and not an elimination.
Of course if he asked for the floor he wins. But he does say he didn't see the straight.
He also said in an interview with poker.org that he didn’t know he had a flush until hours later when he saw a post. So he wasn’t protesting the hand at the time.
You are hearing different than me. I hear "Oh ****, I thought I won...OK".He doesn't say anything about the straight until pointed out and he is walking or nearly walking away.There is also the person (I assume Hawkins) talking about outs and then saying he outed him. This is obviously wrong but it might have influenced the dealer. In fact I would say it did. And I also bet Haw
I could not agree with you more. On everything you said.
I don't think the dealer was on on any cheating, I think they just messed up.
After listening to Hawkins talk about the hand, I think he knew what was happening, but I think he just stayed silent.
Shame on him. Seriously. I just wish 3rd place would have spoken up more forcefully.
