Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]
You may have noticed small differences between Native Americans, and bros that have been known to blow themselves up for a cause, are a religion of expansion/conquest, and use their women and children as shields. I mean SMALL differences.
The Native Americans have also never said "From LA to Cape Cod, we're taking it all for God"
"They claim this mother of ours, the earth, for their own and fence their neighbors away; they deface her with their buildings and their refuse. That nation is like a spring freshet that overruns its banks and destroys all who are in its path. We cannot dwell side by side."
Sitting Bull
"They claim this mother of ours, the earth, for their own and fence their neighbors away; they deface her with their buildings and their refuse. That nation is like a spring freshet that overruns its banks and destroys all who are in its path. We cannot dwell side by side."
Sitting Bull
But micro the second we go "OG Natives", that's the Jews. Dig in the ground, it's OUR coins. Our relics. Our pottery. I know, I dug them up one Summer.
So the native route FAILS here. Jews in Israel ARE the return story. It's the story of "what if they got their home back after being removed".
Those are the facts in the dirt.
You may have noticed small differences between Native Americans, and bros that have been known to blow themselves up for a cause, are a religion of expansion/conquest, and use their women and children as shields. I mean SMALL differences.
The Native Americans have also never said "From LA to Cape Cod, we're taking it all for God"
Native Americans were a lot of different groups. But you seem to have gotten a very sanitized version of history. Most of the Native American tribes, especially the dominant ones, were much more vicious and warlike than Palestinians. They were just completely outmatched numerically and militarily, and there was no geopolitics propping them up.
You may have noticed small differences between Native Americans, and bros that have been known to blow themselves up for a cause, are a religion of expansion/conquest, and use their women and children as shields. I mean SMALL differences.
The Native Americans have also never said "From LA to Cape Cod, we're taking it all for God"
you should read up on what the early Jewish Zionists said about the Native Americans. they very much blamed them for their own genocide for not getting along with the white colonists.
But micro the second we go "OG Natives", that's the Jews. Dig in the ground, it's OUR coins. Our relics. Our pottery. I know, I dug them up one Summer.
So the native route FAILS here. Jews in Israel ARE the return story. It's the story of "what if they got their home back after being removed".
Those are the facts in the dirt.
I don't care about any of the racism. Humans are all related and it's all everyone's pottery. You know how little genetics you share with someone even a few generations removed?
I'm taking about people who exist now and if people are allowed to live freely as citizens, like the Native Americans, or anyone else, they put down their arms and within a couple generations they live together.
1. You are imagining, as this description in far far far from reality.2. Some of these people in Gaza had never seen an Egyptian in person – FYP3. Think about living in a concentration camp – One of the biggest lol's4. We didn’t micromanage Gaza in any way, shape or form.5. They are just locked in this hellscape – it really shows you have no idea what you are talking about6
You are just in here asserting misinformation and denying true information. But I'm not going to waste my time linking to citations which you will ignore unless you can get Microbet, someone I think at least has a brain, to agree with you assertions.
To say Israel didn't micromanage Gaza in any way...I don't really get the point of you saying something so absurdly inaccurate. This is a fairly educated forum compared to the norm. You're just telling people here that you have no credibility whatsoever. When you control the very calorie count of a population, and dial it down in a way such to harm them without being accused of starving them, as the Israelis did to Palestinians in Gaza, that is a form of micromanagement. And that's just one example of many.
The snipers shooting the kneecaps or peaceful protestors, including of children, is a well documented happening which has probably been linked to ITT multiple times. Coming in here and just posting desperate lies is, to you I suppose, some kind of antagonistic move in your mind, some way of projecting to deal with the guilt and shame of trading your humanity for some racist ideal. But it doesn't have the effect you intend. You've got demons that are going to haunt you for the rest of your life. You might as well face them now and see if you can quiet them. Some people can apparently lose their humanity and be fine because they never had it to begin. You're not that type of dude tho. If you were, you wouldn't be in here posting. I read pain in your ridiculous, desperate denials. I think people watch too many movies and TV shows showing people doing inhumane things to other people and not being affected. The reality is most people are traumatized by committing violence to other people. Fascist societies like Israel take on a very masculine ethos, one that elevates sociopathy. But sociopaths are born. When people, as you are, try to embody a psychology they don't really have it doesn't work out well for them.
But micro the second we go "OG Natives", that's the Jews. Dig in the ground, it's OUR coins. Our relics. Our pottery. I know, I dug them up one Summer.
So the native route FAILS here. Jews in Israel ARE the return story. It's the story of "what if they got their home back after being removed".
Those are the facts in the dirt.
Settlements in the area go back more than 100000 years and cities more than 10000. Israelites go back 3200 years. No one knows who the OGs were, other than they were humans.
Settlements in the area go back more than 100000 years and cities more than 10000. Israelites go back 3200 years. No one knows who the OGs were, other than they were humans.
Actually, analysis of human genetics from fossils is allowing us to glean a lot about prehistoric populations. Not that it actually matters. Either information is used to validate what you already believe or it is discarded. No one actually updates their cultural software based on new information, especially if it doesn't support their pre-existing biases.
What's their resistance at this time?
You point to a good solution. Allow all Palestinians full Israeli citizenship and Israel will finally win.
If the disastrous nation building exercises of the late 20th century taught us anything, it is that you cant impose democracy on diverse non-liberal tribal oriented populations. Which is why democracy hasn't worked for any of the Middle East diverse nation states.
Truthfully, as time passes and Israel becomes more culturally Arab, it is just as likely to likely to lose its democracy and revert into clans vying for dominance with eachother in a zero sum mindset, as not.
The idea that integrating 6 million Palestinians with no liberal values, strong tribal allegiances, and various alliances with imperial foreign nations such as Iran, Turkey and Russia is completely laughable. It would be chaotic, and in a state with so much advanced military technology, tremendously reckless.
Honestly, in some crazy scenario Israel tried to do this, the other Arab states might step in to offer to take the Palestinians just to make sure it doesn't happen.
But micro the second we go "OG Natives", that's the Jews. Dig in the ground, it's OUR coins. Our relics. Our pottery. I know, I dug them up one Summer.
Those people came here after us! They don't deserve to live here!
So the Jews who converted to Christianity and Islam are denied patrimony?
We'll see the resolve of the Gaza population but currently they're saying you're going to have to native American genocide+ us to attain peace. Kill all of us and won't have any novel diseases to do the heavy lifting. It really is a nuisance for Israel.
i dont think this is true. i think most palestinians simply want a normal, peaceful life, and that most are not prepared to throw themselves into the fire in hopeless pursuit of driving the jews out of the middle east
i think there's a lot of false conflation of hamas on one hand and palestinians writ large on the other
So the native route FAILS here. Jews in Israel ARE the return story. It's the story of "what if they got their home back after being removed".
It's the story of violent European settlers ethnically cleansing the people who'd been living there for the last near-2,000 years, very considerably longer than the ancient Jewish state is known to have existed (which was just a few hundred years).
The BBC has owned up to a slight failure of due diligence in broadcasting a Hamas-sponsored 'documentary'.
The BBC has owned up to a slight failure of due diligence in broadcasting a Hamas-sponsored 'documentary'.
alternatively, Zionists go after a child (what else is new?) bc his Dad is a civil servant tasked with helping to provide food for a blockaded population. BBC relents bc they are spineless and supporters of White Supremacy.
The Afghan government and military were defeated in a matter of hours in 2001. Iraq was defeated in weeks in 2003. The thing is, militaries can be defeated and people can be killed, but they can't be made to cooperate and, if there's resistance, any occupation will always eventually fail.
Sure, but I'd also argue that the military has made some of it's largest advancements after that, circa 2010-2016 - UAV improvement, and our tech leading to jdam, which can convert anything into gps guided weapons now - ryatheon's improvement to the missile systems, and cybersecurity and electronic warfare. Everyone mentions Northrup Grumman, but it's raytheon that has really made the military stronger overal.
How do you figure? Seemed like people who wipe their ass with their hand forced a stalemate at a minimum in Afghanistan. Yeah, it's usually the right strategic decision to halt a campaign that gets nowhere and costs a trillion dollars.We can't beat anybody in any scenario we would want to win. All we can do is nuke people and that's messy on a lot of levels. All of our giant eq
Id agree that I would too but I think that almost everyone would if they were born and raised under those conditions. Which is why I don't think its a gotcha to the people in Gaza when Egypt won't let them him because conditions like that will bread a violent response in anyone and it isn't their fault for being born there.
But I do think Iran are some of the biggest chicken hawks for attempting to fuel this failed fight and It makes perfect sense to see them cowardly back off when the vulnerable one asked them to defend them.
It's the story of violent European settlers ethnically cleansing the people who'd been living there for the last near-2,000 years, very considerably longer than the ancient Jewish state is known to have existed (which was just a few hundred years).
Meh.
The Arab plan at the time was to create their own fascist ethnostate throughout the region modeled on Fascist Italy and Nazi Germany. They made no secret their plans to purge the land of Jews, and famously made overtures ro Nazi Germany to assist them in doing so.
They just lost to the Zionist Jews, and instead settled for ethnic cleaning of Jews from the entire MENA except Israel (many of whom had no interest in Zionism or Aliyah until persecution made it a necessity)
As I said before, not even counting Europe and the Holocaust, Jews had much more people displaced and property stolen than Arabs in MENA.
But I believe Jews are magnanimous enough to call it even and move on.
Collateral damage, even to your own side, happens in wars.
Just as it is statistically impossible that thousands of Palestinians weren’t killed by the thousands of Palestinian rocket misfires that landed in Gaza. But because Palestinian society has no accountability, there will never be any investigation into this.
And that isn’t even counting Hamas intentionally murdering civilians that fled battle areas against their orders.
You have this weird logic that because Israel society has some accountability while Palestinian society has none, this is a gotcha that Palestinian society is superior.
Hate to break it to you, but it is clearly the opposite.
the Hannibal doctrine is not "collateral damage". its intentionally killing citizens to avoid capture.
you have this weird logic where you just make up the meaning of things. ask the Israelis what it means.
Im old enough to remember when it was considered antisemitic (ie the worst crime in the world) to say that Israel killed gobs of their own civilians on Oct 7th. now its acknowledged in the furthest right wing papers. but you dont credit for being right in this world.
Im old enough to remember when it was considered antisemitic (ie the worst crime in the world) to say that Israel killed gobs of their own civilians on Oct 7th. now its acknowledged in the furthest right wing papers. but you dont credit for being right in this world.
In your worldview every time Israel goes back, investigates something and found that it happened, it is proof you are right they are evil. And every time it goes back and investigates something and found it didn't happen, it is proof you are right and they are evil liars.
And Hamas never investigating or admitting to anything is proof they never did anything wrong.
You aren't antisemetic because you occasionally say negative things about Israel/Jews that are partially correct. You are antisemetic because your end isn't truth seeking, antisemitism is the end. And any partial truth that is uncovered along the way is incidental.
thats a lot of words to admit that I was easily able to choose the most accurate and evidence based outcome and see through all the misinformation that you guys clung to.
also, Israel has not even scratched the surface of an investigation. rather they buried the bodies and cars and destroyed the evidence. so we will probably never know how many people were killed in this Hannibal attack.
thats a lot of words to admit that I was easily able to choose the most accurate and evidence based outcome and see through all the misinformation that you guys clung to.also, Israel has not even scratched the surface of an investigation. rather they buried the bodies and cars and destroyed the evidence. so we will probably never know how many people were killed in this Hanni
Lots of bad stuff happens in the fog of war, where the truth never comes out. One of the reasons wars generally aren't considered good ideas. Again, the problem with your "truth seeking" is that your end is just antisemitism; you couldn't care less what the truth is.
Do you think we will ever find out how many Palestinians were killed by their own rockets, including the hospital parking lot where fuel drums were hit by a failed IJ rocket and it set a refugee camp on fire?
