Israel/Palestine thread

I'd have clicked report and had Coordi deal with that if I felt the post warranted removing.

I actually don't mind the mod standard now. I took full advantage today (as was the custom in our time).

Anyways, because of how much the Assad regime was vilified (fairly or unfairly) and due to Qatari and Turkish influence peddling, western govts and press has clearly been sympathetic to HTS since the takeover. And done a lot of carrying water for them arguing they had changed their ways from when they were essentially Al Qaida.

This mostly positive treatment has continued into today. It will be interesting now that the massacres are getting play on social media and Al Jazeera if western govt and media do an about face and admit they were wrong, or just quickly move on.

As can be seen with the continued support of Trump over the last month from people that definitely know better, it is hard to admit when you were wrong.

by Dunyain k

This is the first post I have seen in the last few hours, so don’t know if I am a slow pony, but rhe EU position, institutional and media, is more or less praising HTS and condemning Alawites.

https://www.eeas.europa.eu/eeas/spokesperson-statement-latest-developments-syria_en

EEAS

Spokesperson statement on latest developments in Syria

This is where I agree with Victor. The West has been trying to oust Assad for ages now, then Russia and hez comes to his rescue so even more motivation. They're on the side that beats Assad, Muslim extremists or not. MSM isn't going to do a deep dive front and center what really makes up HTS and these atrocities are easy to not ramp up the rage machine. As CV said, decade+ civil war, 100,000's casualties, now the victors are doing some retributional killings. Par for the course on these links. Bigger news story would be this not happening. What's the US going to do? Intervene? Our side won.

Will be neat when HTS finds it too cumbersome to keep those 10,000 IS prisoners and their families locked up and they start looking for a new place to settle.

Alright fwiw I withdraw the directing of my comment at you specifically.

In the U.S., currently, I don't think Israel ever gets extra attention for its misdeeds in mainstream media due to antisemitism. I can't prove a negative, but all I seem to see is the MSM covering for Israel by taking wild, unsubstantiated reports of Israel being victimized and running with them. It also underreports or fails to report major atrocities and mass crimes by Israel. With the scale and barbarity of Israel's more recent atrocities, outright lies were necessary to run cover and were published even if, later, quietly retracted after serving their propaganda purpose. The decapitated babies and the mass rape stories were both hoaxes with zero evidentiary support, for example.

None of us who have followed the MSM coverage of Israel were surprised at the lying or the suppression of Israel's crimes even as they appeared in Israeli newspapers. And let me say on that note what a disrespectful state of affairs we have in which Israel dictates what we read in the news and says we can't have truth while they still report truthfully (if biasedly) in their newspapers. They believe their people deserve the truth while we are targets of constant and harmful manipulation. I don't see how more Americans don't find this sickening. Then again what newsroom in the MSM isn't run by Zionists? Is there a single MSM news channel or newspaper which has expressed agreement with global opinion and in accordance with the horrors we see on social media, with the ruling in international courts the the actions of Israel constitute a genocide? There isn't one that I know of.

Btw I can't make sense of what will happen with Iran now.

Everything I've heard said Israel knocks the nuclear installations out before end of October now (and with help). And with DT's blessing.

Simultaneously, the USA wants to broker agreements with Iran, and Putin is surely asking DT to back off.

I can't consolidate how all that is able to work. Does Trump think he can get Iran to hand in their weapons program first maybe, and get his peace prize? Only thing that makes sense.

I think you (and everyone else) severely discount Qatar and Turkey influence peddling in how the West treats various ME conflicts, especially this one. Qatar literally might spend more money than every other country combined in total influence peddling in Western geopolitics.

Could you imagine the scrutiny if Israel was buying World Cups, doing private security for Olympics, "donating" hundreds of millions to Western universities, etc. etc. etc. We know it would be a tremendous amount of scrutiny, because they already get a ton of scrutiny for the influence peddling they do on a much more minuscule scale.

Yes, I definitely discount Qatar as some puppet master. You've stated it a few times regarding the money they spend but don't remember you linking a cite or a twitter thread to back up the opinion.

Maybe Trump doesn't care if Iran gets a nuclear weapon? Pretty much no one does except Israel, or at least no one cares enough to act definitely to stop it from happening.

One thing is for certain. Trump expects absolute loyalty from Netanyahu/Israel in whatever he decides to do, and Israel will definitely get the Ukraine treatment if they dont bend the knee (so far they have been loyal, see the Israel vote with Russia on the Ukraine war, and have been rewarded for the loyalty)

Khomeini cares if Iran gets a nuclear weapon. he is still disallowing it.

Well, then that is a giant hole in your understanding of how ME and world politics works IMO.

Qatar wields enough influence to dictate MSM ME coverage? That was kind of the discussion going on. To me retributional killing is just another day at the office in the ME.

I agree with a lot of your last few points (although am probably a bit more open to the HTS, al-Sharaa has impressed me in some interviews but it does seem like an impossible position to hold on to and build off of).

Question for you re: Qatar. I am not informed in this area but I thought Saudi was largely, and somewhat successfully, doing their best to undermine Qatari influence. I get that Qatar is still active but I thought they were struggling to asset real influence because the other Saudi led Arab states were knocking them down?

The amount of money they spend in the US and Europe is staggering. And so is their integration into private capital and academia in the US especially. And it isn’t that hard to look up with a little googling.

And despite their sponsoring of Hamas and a lot of other Sunni radical terrorism, they get no bad press for it.

There was even a “Qatargate” scandal in the EU that just glided by then with no real consequences.

It seems obvious to me they are getting some bang for their buck. If you think they are spending all these billions and getting nothing out of it, count me skeptical.

They seem to spend enough they are never part of the coverage of ME geopolitics, despite being a major player.

When was the least time you read a piece criticizing their links to Sunni radical terrorism, hosting Hamas, US campus protests, a lot of bribery scandals in Europe, etc.

Qatar is the single biggest foreign donor to US education. And that is just what is disclosed.

And there is zero curiosity about what is going on here. Are they just great admirers of liberal scholarship and the pursuit of knowledge? If they are, it sure doesn’t show in how they organize their own society.

Anyways, I think the softball coverage of HTS in the West is due in part to Qatar and Turkey influence peddling. I can’t really prove it. Feel free to disagree.

That's not what I've heard at all, nor is it what intelligence briefs kicked up the flagpole in the USA have suggested. And I think the Saudies would obviously care too (among the most obvious first guesses).

Caring and caring enough to do something about it are two very different things. I would say Biden/Harris, Europeans, and Gulf States would prefer Iran didn't acquire nukes, but none of these groups would commit to stopping them from doing so. Also, these groups would have been very critical of Israel if they went after Iran without Iran attacking them first.

Trump is a wild card. He is no friend to the IRGC, but his general philosophy with the ME seems to be disengagement, so not obvious he would be willing to commit in this theatre. But he also might be more willing to give Israel the green light than Biden/Harris would have been.

bro wtf are you talking about. Israel attacked Iran at least twice without any provocation. Biden and Harris wanted war real bad. Kamala actually tried to position herself as the hardliner against Iran during the campaign and tried to paint Trump as soft.

the Democrats are insane warmongers.

Even in the absence of a source I choose to believe the founder and chairman of a humanitarian organization more than I believe you.

This is the most sane take in the HTH Israel coverage debate

Most of this post isn't true.

Lmao. If you got more of your info from actual sources, you might come off as knowledgable instead of totally ignorant.

The US has at least cared in the past, enough to launch the Stuxnet cyberattack against Iran, taking out some nuclear centrifuges. However, that was 10-15 years ago.