GOAT NBA Discussion: Biggest fraud poster: fallguy. Super AIDS Containment thread

Same for their 1983 chip.

Build through the draft? ****ing lol

You… know that Jordan was an off-ball player in junior high? You think you can tell someone’s career assisted field goal % based off one 5 game series? You think you can determine someone’s assisted fg% over the course of 5 years by watching them play for 30 seconds…?

Question fallguy, if Phil Jackson couldn’t possibly know that Jordan would lead the league in scoring within the triangle because the assisted fg stat wasn’t “invented yet”, why didn’t he just watch him play for 30 seconds like you did, given that he was his assistant coach at the time?

Fallguy,
You also haven’t shared your source or the YouTube video creator’s source for the dribbles per field goal stat.

You also did not answer why you did not include the ‘86 Celtics series pie chart, which was a graph shown 15 seconds before the ‘88 Cavs series graph. Jordan had a much higher “dribbles per field goal” in that graph. Did you deliberately leave it out because you were cherry picking and lying to push a narrative? Remember, if you have to lie, you lost.

Remember when Fallguy was joyously pronouncing that Luka was bad because he had to play with Lebron?

He got his chance to play without Lebron. 8-26 with 6 turnovers in a loss to a garbage team. He just isn't very good right now and the Lakers recent success was mostly because of Lebron's superb play.

Remember when Miami built through the draft (3 of their Top 5 players were drafted by Miami - 2012).

Remember when Cleveland built through the draft (3 of their Top 5 players were drafted by Cleveland - 2016).

Rui, DFS and Hayes also out but yeah not a great showing.

Lakers have a brutal schedule remaining, they'll fall into the 5-6 seed range most likely.

Lakers were terrible last night - both Luka and Reaves could barely make a shot and they both struggled to pass out of the double. Sure, if Luka had been injured and LeBron turned in that performance there would be roars of schadenfreude. LeBron will always get held to the higher standard.

The real answer is these games happen every March / April. It’s a long season, players are beat up, opponents like the Nets can play free of pressure.

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HISTORY OF MICHAEL JORDAN'S OFF-BALL FOUNDATION AND LACK OF BALL-DOMINANCE:

Here's MJ's first coach Kevin Loughery saying that MJ wasn't even viewed as a ball-handler back in 1984:

"When Michael played for Dean Smith, it was a total passing offense in college, and then Bobby Knight coached the Olympics where it was the same type offense.. So the only thing we were skeptical about with Michael was whether he could handle the ball and take it anywhere he wanted on the floor. "

^^^ 2:14 mark:

https://soundcloud.com/glennclarkradioclips/kevin-loughery-april-21-2020?utm_source=clipboard&utm_campaign=wtshare&utm_medium=widget&utm_content=https%253A%252F%252Fsoundcloud.com%252Fglennclarkradioclips%252Fkevin-loughery-april-21-2020

soundcloud

Kevin Loughery (April 21, 2020)

Here's Doug Collins in 1987 describing how MJ was getting 37 ppg off-the-ball:

"We've taken the ball out of Michael Jordan's hands.. We've got Paxson and Coulter bringing the ball up... Michael's working off-the-ball more, which saving him work.. And I thought that if we're going to be a team, we need 12 guys contributing during the course of the year.. We can't expect Michael every single night to carry the team every night - no 1 man will beat a team like LA or Boston - it has to be a collection of individual talents."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lR7tZlrv...

Here's Doug Collins stating that MJ's 37 ppg was needed and achieved without ball-domination:

"Management traded away the majority of the offense of this team, so Michael had an unbelievable burden placed on him to score.. We've tried to do it in a team concept - Michael does not dominate the ball.. We run him off picks.. We try to get him the ball where he doesn't have to fight 3 and 3 guys..."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4OGPNQ0...

Jordan averaged 41 ppg to 3-peat and 35 ppg in the 91-93' Playoffs, so that's more PPG in the triangle, and we already know that his PPG is higher across the board when we adjust for pace.. So Jordan averaged more ppg, scoring rate and FGA in the triangle, which means he had the same carry-jobs in the triangle as he did before the triangle..

You were proven wrong on this and were shocked to see that Jordan's numbers increased at all.. Now you're floundering and repeating debunked lies.

Lebron is held to the lowest standard by not having to win with "normal" rosters of 1 franchise player like everyone else, and getting to hand-pick opposing franchise players to team up with..

It's the weakest and most p*ssy move in the history of sports.... And then he still produced perennial losers that rarely won!!!.. A fraudulent skillset that produces bad chemistry with every team.. He literally lowers his teammates' assists and then has team assist deficits in every series loss of his playoff career.. it's called low IQ.. he lacks the IQ and instinct to effectively play off teammates and promote ball movement.

2007 - 22 on 35% vs Spurs (6 TO's)

2008 - 26 on 35% vs Celtics (5 TO's)

2009 - lost a -700 favorite (7 TO's in 4th of Game 4 and 12 TO player in clutch-time for series.. Courtney Lee)

2010 - goat meltdown (famously quit mid-series - 21 on 34% for last 3 games to lose 2-1 lead as -500 fav)

2011 - goat choke

The only reason that Lebron won any titles at all is because he didn't have to win with "normal" rosters or 1 franchise player and formed "super-teams" of 3 franchise players..

He otherwise is a perennial bed-wetter and choker with normal rosters and can't win with them (see his horrific track record with normal rosters above).. He either wet the bed or lost as a colossal favorite for 5 straight years from 2007 to 2011.
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And finally getting a 15 ppg scorer accounts for any scoring decrease in the triangle, except there was none.. We know that Jordan's scoring rate and shot attempts increased in the triangle from 90-93' vs 85-90', and his Finals PPG was astronomical, so his carry-jobs didn't stop once the triangle arrived and actually increased.

Why are you saying something that has nothing to do with my post.

I was proven wrong on this? Tell me what I was proven wrong with?

First of all, everyone has a low team ceiling with a lottery cast and zero 15 ppg teammates.

Yet MJ still developed the 2nd-best team in the league by the end of the 89' Playoffs, so Phil inherited a team that nearly beat the Bad Boys already and had steepest trajectory in the league - an impending champion.

Secondly, it's been shown conclusively that Lebron underachieves expectation, so you're either wrong, or lack the competence to articulate why you're right.

So here's a clue... Preseason favorites have the best odds to win and Lebron failed the best odds more than anyone in history by having the most losses ever with preseason favorites - no one lost 4 times with preseason favorites - only Lebron (3-4)... His bad chemistry has losing records with every type of good team such as Finals teams (4-6), all-star teammates (4-7), 1 or 2 seeds (4-5), and he's the only guy to lose 3 straight seasons with homecourt advantage.. The guy is a joke - the biggest loser and choker of all-time.

So, once again you are agreeing with me.

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CAREER FINALS

Jordan'..... 34 ppg... 6.0 apg... 2.8 TO.. 48%.. goat clutch
Pippen..... 19 ppg... 5.9 apg... 3.3 TO.. 42%.. zero clutch (worst-ever)

CAREER PLAYOFFS WITH BULLS

Jordan'..... 33 ppg... 5.7 apg... 3.1 TO.. 49%
Pippen..... 18 ppg... 5.3 apg... 2.9 TO.. 45%

Jordan's scoring rate was higher in the triangle for the regular season and playoffs.

He scored more per 100 possessions or adjusted for pace.

He also averaged his highest PPG in the Finals, which was exclusively the triangle.

Since his high scoring and shot attempts continued in the triangle, that means his carry-jobs did too.. All 6 chips were carry-jobs, as the numbers above show.
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You aren't articulate and/or lack the spine to avoid passive-aggressive behavior and be direct

So I don't know what you were trying to say.. I was just trying to get to the next page to repost the proof that 80's MJ was an off-ball player (and always had been)

The 86' Celtics chart still shows that 53% of Jordan's field goals were 2 dribbles or less, and that's despite Coach Stan Albeck letting him play point guard and bring the ball up... The 86' Playoffs was the only time of his career where he brought the ball up except the brief PG stint in 89'... Every other coach had him play off-ball, such as Kevin Loughery in 85', Doug Collins in 87' and 88', Phil Jackson, Dean Smith and Bobby Knight - all of this is shown in the response below.

HISTORY OF MICHAEL JORDAN'S OFF-BALL FOUNDATION AND LACK OF BALL-DOMINANCE:

Here's MJ's first coach Kevin Loughery saying that MJ wasn't even viewed as a ball-handler back in 1984:

"When Michael played for Dean Smith, it was a total passing offense in college, and then Bobby Knight coached the Olympics where it was the same type offense.. So the only thing we were skeptical about with Michael was whether he could handle the ball and take it anywhere he wanted on the floor. "

^^^ 2:14 mark:

https://soundcloud.com/glennclarkradiocl...

Here's Doug Collins in 1987 describing how MJ was getting 37 ppg off-the-ball:

"We've taken the ball out of Michael Jordan's hands.. We've got Paxson and Coulter bringing the ball up... Michael's working off-the-ball more, which saving him work.. And I thought that if we're going to be a team, we need 12 guys contributing during the course of the year.. We can't expect Michael every single night to carry the team every night - no 1 man will beat a team like LA or Boston - it has to be a collection of individual talents."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lR7tZlrv...

Here's Doug Collins stating that MJ's 37 ppg was needed and achieved without ball-domination:

"Management traded away the majority of the offense of this team, so Michael had an unbelievable burden placed on him to score.. We've tried to do it in a team concept - Michael does not dominate the ball.. We run him off picks.. We try to get him the ball where he doesn't have to fight 3 and 4 guys..."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4OGPNQ0...

So you've been proven wrong on this in a myriad of ways... Jordan was always an off-ball player and it's a reflection of your low basketball IQ that you don't know this.. Your ignorance is similar to a new hoops fans asking me to prove that Shaq had a top dunk frequency before 1997 (before possession-tracking)... Obviously, the new fan could watch about 90 seconds of footage and get his answer.. But I'm happy to continue educating you on the basics of the game, if that's what it takes.
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They're all carried compared to Jordan.

Having an equal-scoring partner like AD, Lebron Wade or Kyrie is "carried" compared to Jordan.

Pippen averaged 10-30 less than Jordan in every series and peaked at 21 ppg in the Finals, while Kyrie, Wade, Lebron and AD reached 27 in various Finals and carried each other... They also outplayed league MVP's like Curry, Jokic, Dirk, and "young MJ", while Pippen was never expected to compete with the best players in the league.. They also made the Finals without Lebron (Kyrie, Wade, Love), while Pippen had historic choke to miss the Finals in the 2000 WCF.. It's night and day - Pippen was mostly a transition player and defender, while Kyrie, AD, Wade, Bosh and Love were "go-to" players, elite scorers and franchise players (tasked with building a team from scratch, as opposed to being handed the goat dynasty like Pippen was).

Btw, it's also "carried" compared to other guys that carried the scoring load on the championship level (defeated max defensive attention) like 22' Curry, 15' Curry, 09' Kobe, 10' Kobe, 03' Duncan, 94' Hakeem and 06' Wade.

Ric Bucher systematically annihilates every pro-Lebron argument that exists and put forth by Acho:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TaxBmav4...

Case closed

He makes a great point that the growth in international comp is offset by the lesser American development of players.. The best American MVP candidates are Ant, Ja, and Tatum, which is nothing compared to Shaq, Hakeem, Robinson, Ewing, Barkley, MJ, Malone, Bird, Magic and more.. Duncan... 3 or 4 years of college was standard, so American players were better than they are today.

Fallguy, I want you to show me how you calculated Michael Jordan’s average assisted fg% before the triangle was implemented, and after, based on coach’s quotes. Can you do that for me?

Are you capable of understanding that Michael Jordan being a good off ball player is not a calculation of his assisted fg%?

Me: “Fallguy, can you show me the data that Shaq’s dunk frequency was above x% in certain offenses?”

Fallguy: “WELL YOU SEE, THIS PROVES YOUR UGNORUNCE BECAUSE AS YIU CAN SEEE SHAQ DUNQS THE BALL LOTS.”

Yeah, you’re right. That sounds about like our exchange here.

The fact that you think you can calculate any season long game statistic from 90 seconds of footage proves, unequivocally, that you’re a raging dumbass.

Did mj ever reach a final outside the triangle ?
You can’t see how dum an argument that is ?

But did mj ever scored more in a series playoff outside the triangle ?
Yup he did 1986 vs the Celtics with 43.7 ppg …

I suggest you check the RTattempt too …
Mj had like double FR in half the games played outside the triangle …