Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]
usually adults can help themelves to an extent if they are actually in good faith trying to seek information.
Gaza is small and it still produced a lot of vegetables. until Israel destroyed all of the farmland and killed all the farmers.
It's more that, after the supposed withdrawal, the Israelis designated all of Gaza's best arable land as a 'security zone' to be left fallow in case they wanted to park their tanks on it, and were liable to shoot (from across the border, the range not being great) anyone trying to work the fields or indeed children who just happened to be mucking about there -- a notorious video showed that IDF snipers regarded kid-killing as sport.
usually adults can help themelves to an extent if they are actually in good faith trying to seek information.
That’s generally not how adults operate in the real world but it’s no surprise since you live in a fantasy world. I’m not sure how I’m supposed to know which article is linked to “85%”. And I’m not sure how much more good faith you want if I’m reading the articles and looking at sources. It’s not my fault you linked a broken article.
its real weird that I was able to find the broken link very quickly and you couldnt. I would call that a skill problem on your end.
regardless, I didnt link the article. anyway, now that you have been spoonfed all the information, I guess you can change your viewpoint now.
Watching some of that settlers movie, some of those early outposts are on some pretty barren land and when they show the more established settlements there is a lot of greenery. It's not that hard to do, just takes money for infrastructure. In the early days the colonists from Europe had access to more resources than the local Arabs and were able to make land more productive. T
You can look at all the neighboring non oil rich Arab countries (Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Egypt, Iraq, Yemen) and have a pretty good idea what the Palestinian Territories would look like if they had chosen peace instead of Resistance, or if Israel had never been created.
We would be squarely in “tribal, zero sum, dysfunctional, low GDP developing world” territory. No matter how many date farms there were.
State building is actually hard. Especially in such a harsh climate and natural resource poor land.
The Israeli Jewish people are the commodity that made Israel into what it is today.
how many trillions did the US spend to destroy Lebanon, Syria, and Iraq? like yes, if another country decided to spend literally trillions of dollars to destroy Israel then it wouldnt be looking too good today. it actually doesnt look good anyway, despite all of the handouts given to it.
They never did have water rights. The Israelis always controlled the water and didn't allow much of it, same as they restricted food supplies to just-above-starvation levels.
Yeah, that's one of the flies in the soup
its real weird that I was able to find the broken link very quickly and you couldnt. I would call that a skill problem on your end.
regardless, I didnt link the article. anyway, now that you have been spoonfed all the information, I guess you can change your viewpoint now.
You’re insane. When someone quotes a specific part of an article, which directly references another article, you’d expect the information which the whole talking point revolves around to be presented. Nothing about the article beyond “85%” was presented.
Ironically, I did a quick google search and all the top hits were about israel owning 85% of farmland or something.
that you cant recognize an article from 1960 that starts with the paragraph I cited above and also contains this is pushing a "colonist agenda" is probably a good indication that you arent well-read on the subject.
The paragraph is a little glorified but it is true that Zionists bought a lot of "trash" land in the beginning. The locals had already been farming the good land forever. The Zionists did turn a lot of that land to be productive with their superior resources and hard work. Israel has also immensely contributed to agricultural advances for their climate in the last 50 years.
how many trillions did the US spend to destroy Lebanon, Syria, and Iraq? like yes, if another country decided to spend literally trillions of dollars to destroy Israel then it wouldnt be looking too good today. it actually doesnt look good anyway, despite all of the handouts given to it.
But that’s exactly what’s happening to Israel and they’ve won multiple, multi-front wars while becoming one of the most developed countries in the world. Israel has issues but nothing in comparison to the other countries mentioned.
Israel has directly been billions (if not trillions) of dollars over the years and any country that opposes it faces trillions of dollars of destabilization and war from the US and the West. they are a net welfare recipient by a mile.
ffs, I just read about a Texas city that found out for some reason they were sending 4 million a year in tax dollars to Israel and subsequently voted to end such idiocy next cycle and use the money for their own city.
we live in a gangster society and the big bosses are making poor people kick up to the genocidal Israelis.
the governor says it literally illegal to NOT send money to Israel.
Your own article undermines your point. The Yishuv
drained 44,000 acres of marshland and extended irrigation to 325,000 acres; it had increased many-fold the supply of underground water from wells and was far along on the work of diverting and utilizing the scant surface waters. On vast stretches of uncultivable land it had established new range-cover to support a growing livestock industry
Why did the Yishuv start out on uncultivated desert and marshland? Because the good land was already occupied and blooming. The Palestinians have always been there, get used to it.
Your own article undermines your point. The Yishuv
Why did the Yishuv start out on uncultivated desert and marshland? Because the good land was already occupied and blooming. The Palestinians have always been there, get used to it.
I’m not sure what you think my point was but it was simply that Israel has turned a good amount of space that was considered uninhabitable into livable/farmable land. I’ve never pretended to care who was living there first.
Also I chose that article because it looked less inherently Israeli and more impartial than the other top hits. I actually didn’t know that Scientific American was a Western colonial propaganda mouth piece.
Amos Goldberg, Professor of Genocide Studies at The Hebrew University in Jerusalem "Yes, it is genocide. It's so difficult and painful to admit it, but we can no longer avoid this conclusion. Jewish history will henceforth be stained"
Copped from Twitter:
1. William Schabas, author of the 741-page textbook, "Genocide in International Law: The Crime of Crimes " - says it's genocide in Gaza (http://t.ly/Fd-PL)
2. John Quigley, author of the 300-page book, "The Genocide Convention: An International Law Analysis" - says it's a genocide in Gaza (http://t.ly/OWzJS)
3. @martinshawx
, author of the books "What is Genocide?" and "War and Genocide" - says it's a genocide (http://t.ly/wDDKS & http://rb.gy/gwsv8l)
4. @dirkmoses
, author of the 600-page book, "The Problems of Genocide" - says it's a genocide in Gaza (http://rb.gy/03x059)
5. Raz Segal, author of "Genocide in the Carpathians" - says it's genocide in Gaza (http://rb.gy/7ud65k)
6. Amos Goldberg, author of books on the Holocaust, says it's a genocide in Gaza
7. @bartov_omer
, author of several books on the Holocaust and genocide, says it's a genocide in Gaza.
8. @FranceskAlbs
submitted two well-argued reports on genocide to the UN.
9. Amnesty International @amnesty
wrote a 297-page report (http://t.ly/3K6FO) concluding it is a genocide in Gaza.
10. Human Rights Watch @hrw
wrote a 179-page report (http://t.ly/nEt9x) concluding it is extermination and Acts of genocide.
11. Israeli Professor and Historian @LeeMordechai
wrote a 120-page report (http://t.ly/qnlnO) concluding it is genocide in Gaza
12. Major General & former Defence Minister Moshe Ya’alon of the Israeli Defence Forces (IDF) confirms that war crimes and ethnic cleansing are happening in Gaza (http://t.ly/nHzBy).
13. The pope stated that the genocide in Gaza must be investigated (http://rb.gy/maq25k)
14. The International Criminal Court (ICC) issued arrest warrants for Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and former Israeli Defense Minister Yoav Gallant for crimes against humanity and war crimes (http://rb.gy/yrjbis)
15. @LemkinInstitute
for Genocide called out Israel for genocide and the USA in fall of 2023
lol even if we accept that it’s a genocide, the jews genocided plenty in the bible without remorse. what makes her think this is some exceptional stain on jews? and why would anyone feel collective guilt for the actions of someone else in their ethnic group?
should palestinians have a “collective stain” for all the rape, murder, and slavery muslims have done over the years?
The last couple days have been a reminder that although they have taken some hits in the last couple years, the Islamists are far from done and are fighting back.
As we speak Islamists in Syria are enacting pogroms against Druze and Alawites in Syria, massacring dozens if not hundreds, and Hamas in Gaza is mass executing protesters there.
In fact, Druze in Israel are actually protesting that Israel is not doing enough to fight Islamists in Syria. They would prefer Israel annex Druze majority areas of Syria, so their tribal compatriots in Syria could enjoy the liberties and freedom of being under the Israel umbrella, as opposed to being a heavily persecuted minority in a Muslim Arab nation.
The last couple days have been a reminder that although they have taken some hits in the last couple years, the Islamists are far from done and are fighting back.
As we speak Islamists in Syria are enacting pogroms against Druze and Alawites in Syria, massacring dozens if not hundreds, and Hamas in Gaza is mass executing protesters there.
right, just like the people who were labeled "Assadists" predicted. the same thing happened in Libya. its the liberal Western playbook.
right, just like the people who were labeled "Assadists" predicted. the same thing happened in Libya. its the liberal Western playbook.
Obviously it is Arab Muslims doing all the pogroms and massacres, so they ultimately are the ones responsible for their own behavior. But Europe and the Trump administration have been noticeable silence and indifferent to it all. It really has been Israel as the lone beacon of light combating this darkness.
Originally Posted by jalfrezi
New Theroux doc coming out - The Settlers.
It was very good.
The issue isn't that the BBC is wrong about the Israeli settlers. The issue is they are extremely biased in their narrow interest on Israel and their agnosticism towards the rest of the Middle East.
You can pick any Middle East country and there is some group acting this way against some other group. Most Middle Eastern countries something like this is happening in multiple places at once. You could probably do dozens of documentaries like this on the MENA alone.
In Egypt you have Muslims persecuting the Coptics
In Syria you have Islamists persecuting the Alawaites, Druze and Kurds
Iraq you have the Kurds and Yazidi being constantly persecuted, and Shia and Sunni going back and forth against each other.
Before they left every other country for Israel, Jews were the subject of persecution throughout the MENA.
And on and on and on.
For all the narrative about Israeli settlers acting like "colonial Europeans," the truth is they really are just acting like typical Arabs, except less violent and cruel than the norm. This part of the world is just highly tribal, zero sum, violent and cruel. It is just the culture.
And more and more, Israel is acting like a typical Arab country. Which is entirely predicable after 80 years of conflict. And if the world wants things to change, they have to stop funding and supporting The Resistance (IMO).
Good to see checkraisdraw and dunyain finally arriving at the much predicted Ok it is a genocide but …. stage of the never ending massacre of men women and children.
lol even if we accept that it’s a genocide, the jews genocided plenty in the bible without remorse. what makes her think this is some exceptional stain on jews? and why would anyone feel collective guilt for the actions of someone else in their ethnic group?
are you quoting Mein Kampf here?
Israel bombed an aid flotilla like 1200 miles away near Malta today. it took many hours for the Euros to go and save the humanitarians. likely the Euros gave away the position to the genocidal Israelis. certainly they let the drones fly unimpeded through their air space. its very likely they hoped that all would die but international pressure forced them to act.
years ago Israel attacked another aid flotilla and executed like 10 people at point blank range.
I don't think anyone had to be saved exactly. The drones seemed to be aiming small munitions at the ship's generator, on deck forward, and started a fire. The ship's position will have been relayed by the IDF C-130 which was orbiting the area for hours. Don't know what story the C-130 crew told Maltese ATC, if any, but Malta has no fighters and its air defence consists of old Bofors and M2 .50 guns, so they couldn't do much about it, or about the drones.
