British Politics
Been on holiday for a few weeks, surprised to find no general discussion of British politics so though I'd kick one off.
The optics are great. That was true of Munich as well.
A consequence of brexit means we have little choice but to get closer to the usa and I have a somewhat mixed view. If starmer really thinks trump is someone he can do business with then we're in big trouble. On the other hand if he has done a deal to try to minimise harm while understanding it's not worth the paper it isn't yet written on then I'll give him a fair bit of credit for it. Time will tell.
The serious danger is that we harm relations with reliable partners by trying to gain advantage with someone who cannot be trusted an inch and on whom we will be increasingly dependent.
I'm typically in the "let's not read too much into this until we're <1 year from an election" team, but it's hard to ignore.
The Tories will have to make an electoral pact at some point, but do they make it with Reform, or Labour?
I have a somewhat mixed view. If starmer really thinks trump is someone he can do business with then we're in big trouble. On the other hand if he has done a deal to try to minimise harm while understanding it's not worth the paper it isn't yet written on then I'll give him a fair bit of credit for it. Time will tell.The serious danger is that we harm relations with reliable pa
The USA is a reliable partner, it's just the current occupant of the White House isn't.
What Trump is more than anything is someone who is easy to both read and manipulate. If you're sitting at the poker table and he sits down, your eyes light up. Trump will happily do deals that are bad for the USA but good for him personally - whether that be financial rewards, state visits or photo ops.
So yes, let's do lots of that while there is the opportunity. The next occupant of The White House might be better, but could also be considerably worse.
What trump thinks is good for him changes in a heartbeat. I symapthise with minimising harm while trying to outlast him but I dont know if starmer is blinded by the optics. The reality of the beast is he doens't feel the deal is going his way (irrespectuve of what was agreed) he will smack us in the face. We will constantly have to appease his whims.
More generally, we are way too junior in the 'partnership' to rely on the USA. It's dependency and dependency gets you eventually. That's aside from the fact they elected trump twice! which should be way more thn enough to make us realise we cannot rely on them.
So we shouldn't do deals with the EU as we are a "junior partner" there too?
Appeasing his whims is fine. Zelensky has learned the hard way that butting heads with him is a bad idea - as soon as he started complimenting him, he got USA intelligence back online. Pretty small price to pay in the grand scheme of things.
I haven't said we shoudn't do deals. We have no option but to do deals. The EU isn' trumpian at the moment and at least tends to honour it's deals. However you are right and we have to realise that once the EU is more developed politically, and in particualr doens't need our defense capabailities, we will be dependent which is a terrible idea. Unless we rejoin.
We disagree totally on appeasing trump being fine. Yes zalensky demonstrates exactly the problem. It can be necessary for a while but it is the cost of a very bad spot with dire long consequence. As i said I will give Starmer credit if it turns out he is well aware ratehr than blinded by the optics
It's not impossible that the TPP will provide a different alternative. 2nd best and more of a punt than rejoining the EU but way better than trying to go it alone.
We disagree totally on appeasing trump being fine. Yes zalensky demonstrates exactly the problem. It can be necessary for a while but it is the cost of a very bad spot with dire long consequence. As i said I will give Starmer credit if it turns out he is well aware ratehr than blinded by the optics
I agree this is the crux of it. Anyone with a reasonable amount of nous and education can see Trump for exactly what he is. What I find it hard to believe is that Starmer is somehow oblivious to this.
I agree. I dont think we have any good realistic options. At least for along time.
That's why we have litle choice but to try to appease trump
I agree this is the crux of it. Anyone with a reasonable amount of nous and education can see Trump for exactly what he is. What I find it hard to believe is that Starmer is somehow oblivious to this.
Yes and I'm critical of starmer because I suspect he can't see it.
But we simply dont know what advice/strategy Starmer is following although he can't have stratagy of playing trump and saying so out loud. As per the post aove it's not easy to see what we should do while appeasing trump (if that is the plan) - it's a very bad spot to have got into.
I agree. I dont think we have any good realistic options. At least for along time.
That's why we have litle choice but to try to appease trump
Yeah, it sucks, but realistically that's all we can do.
Politcs should include trying to avoid or minimise these spots. It's always too late once you're in.
That's why I slightly reserve judgement on Starmer on this 'deal'. I dont think he has any vision for the future but I grudgingly accept it's possible.
He's done his best given his limited talents, in my view.
These days I give him more of a pass because I'm comparing him to potential future prime minister Farage, and he is 1000x better than that.
Mind you, Davros and the daleks would be better than Farage.
Starmer is part of the problem when it comes to farage/etc imo. We desperately need a lot better
We have a little time but are basically drawing to geopolics improving and very significant world growth
Starmer is part of the problem when it comes to farage/etc imo. We desperately need a lot better
I also agree, though I wouldn't say Starmer, I'd say 'any politician that's in power and hasn't actually helped to improve the lives of the majority of people'
Starmer is this, but it seems they are all like that.
And not just in this country, so many useless politicians in so many countries, opening doors for the far-right because they do terrible jobs or clearly aren't democratic (looking at you, EU)
I just wish there was some sort of reasonable, utilitarian party to vote for, not ideologues committed to either virtue signalling or being utter bastards.
We're not on quite the same page. I'm against utilitarianism because it has bad consequences.
Dogmatism is bad but ideology is necessary. Decisions have to guided by principles. Those principles have to be part of some sort of politcal vision which has been argued for at the ballot box.
Labour MPs must realise welfare system ‘needs reform’, says Reeves
😮
there are many people that are trapped on benefits that are desperate to work, that have been cut out of opportunity for too long. That will change under this government
The Thatcherism continues. How would an ex Bank of England administrator and commercial bank help desk operative even know anything about this?
She’s no different to listening to the equally clueless Badenoch talk about things she has zero experience or understanding of.
He's done his best given his limited talents, in my view.
These days I give him more of a pass because I'm comparing him to potential future prime minister Farage, and he is 1000x better than that.
Mind you, Davros and the daleks would be better than Farage.
I agree he's not a great leader, but he's exceeded my (albeit limited) expectations as PM. In office, he's a bit like John Major and like him, I expect that when the dust has settled on his time as PM, history will look more favourably on his time as PM than we do now.
Adults accompanying foreign workers to the UK will be expected to pass an English language test and care homes will be prevented from recruiting staff from abroad as part of a swathe of new measures to be revealed by Keir Starmer to “tighten up” the immigration system.
Amid a recent surge in support for Reform UK, the prime minister will say on Monday that overseas arrivals should commit “to learning our language” and will promise to overhaul a “broken system” that encourages businesses to “bring in lower-paid workers”.
The government will also end the right of foreign workers to automatically apply for settlement in the UK after five years, instead extending their wait to a 10-year requirement, the prime minister will say.
The announcements are part of Labour’s long-awaited white paper on immigration to be put before parliament on Monday, and follow the electoral success of Nigel Farage’s party in the local elections this month.
Also included will be plans to deport more foreign criminals, tell employers they must train UK staff and requirements that skilled workers entering Britain have a degree.
More of why we mustn't let this spineless **** take our votes for granted
Hopefully it is becoming obvious to all that thais is the thinking that keeps pushing us to the right.
“If we lose voters to Reform ourselves as well, that’s a lot of seats we will lose. If the next election is versus a Farage-Jenrick coalition then we can squeeze the progressive vote very hard. The choice in front of people will be very stark.”
This is part of the counterargument in favour of a focus on Reform which is being put forward by some in No 10 and the Treasury. That argument is threefold: that by the next election the government will be making tangible improvements to public services, especially the NHS; that a spending blitz would risk a Liz Truss-style meltdown; and that in four years’ time, faced with the threat of a Reform-Conservative coalition, progressive voters will vote tactically to stop them.
The data suggests that final assumption may be true: almost 80% of Labour 2024 voters are prepared to vote tactically to keep out Reform, according to More in Common data.
We have to make it not true. 80% willing to vote least worst is bad but it doesn't have to fall that much further to completely change the calculas.
Wow i knew he was spineless but he went full capitualtion to farage today
For reasons which they could not comprehend, and in pursuance of a decision by default, on which they were never consulted, they found themselves made strangers in their own country.
Starmer. Sorry I mean Powell
This was Starmer
Without [fair immigration rules], we risk becoming an island of strangers, not a nation that walks forward together.
What a complete shite. Although I wouldn't set fire to his house.
