Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]
I made a post a while back with the argument that there was nothing to stop full ethnic cleansing because no step on the slippery slope would ever convince Israel supporters to get off the train.
I think there's an interesting comparison to be made between this and the various atrocities of the 20th century. The difference is that, whereas knowledge of the most extreme elements of 20th century atrocities was almost always limited to a relatively small body of government actors, we now have a situation where satellite internet makes it possible for everyone to see every step of the process despite a full inescapable seige, which is really bad for Israel and has led to a situation where supporters can't even debate from a moral angle anymore. It has to be a purely pragmatic argument about cleansing for future security.
The problem is that, if we look at pretty much any story in human history, it's impossible not the be the bad guy when your justification for hurting innocents is self-preservation. Israeli has a long road of being the bad guy ahead of them. Given the dependence on external support from what are ostensibly democracies, and given that the war has many more potential fronts than Gaza, I question the wisdom of this strategy.
Can any pro-Israel poster offer an argument for why this is a good idea on a purely pragmatic level? Why walk right into the trap? Is exercising power in the short-term simply too irresistible?
Yes. The point is he doesn’t want Gazans multiplying, pretty much the same as you want to see them gone too.
I just don't understand why they would want to multiply right now. Unless things aren't as bad in Gaza as people say. I certainly would not be having children during this time of war if I were a Gazan.
But they arent the same people. Bin Laden was Al Qaeda. The same guys now in charge in Syria. The same guys the US armed to fight the Houthis. The same guys stealing aid in Gaza right now. Israel is allied with them. You are literally on the same side as Al Qaeda and ISIS.
ISIS thinks Hamas are idiots for going after Israel. They knew they weren't ready. Al Qaeda, Hamas and ISIS are all the same. They are Jihadists. Hamas is the dumb kid of the group.
The problem is that, if we look at pretty much any story in human history, it's impossible not the be the bad guy when your justification for hurting innocents is self-preservation. Israeli has a long road of being the bad guy ahead of them. Given the dependence on external support from what are ostensibly democracies, and given that the war has many more potential fronts than
First off, the Netanyahu administration seems to have calculated they can do without support from most of these democracies moving forward. Western Europe has chosen to demilitarize, so the only leverage they have is economic. But the new multipolar world is a big place and Netanyahu has calculated Israel can find plenty of trade partners with nations that dont care about 2 tribes of Middle Easterners fighting over a little piece of economically worthless desert. Just as most of the world is indifferent to what Russia is doing in Ukraine, and are more than willing to trade with Russia. Obviously if Israel loses US support this would be a big deal, but Netanyahu seems to have calculated this isn't going to happen.
Second, Netanyahu seems to be going for broke, and working towards a future where Israel doesn't need so much support, because no one is threatening and attacking them. The Sunni world seems ready to make their peace with Israel, so the last big domino that needs to fall is the IRGC and all their proxies. And the IRGC seems ready to collapse at any second; as the Iranian people themselves are sick of the corruption, incompetence and neglecting real domestic concerns to focus on funding and supporting Arab wars.
So IF the IRGC does indeed fall, the Sunni world makes its peace with Israel, and US continues to support Israel economically and militarily, all of which seem possible even in light of Israel's current actions; then even an Israeli state that is regarded as a pariah by Western Europe and Canada can be in a better spot geopolitically than they were 10/8/2023.
wrong
I made a post a while back with the argument that there was nothing to stop full ethnic cleansing because no step on the slippery slope would ever convince Israel supporters to get off the train. I think there's an interesting comparison to be made between this and the various atrocities of the 20th century. The difference is that, whereas knowledge of the most extreme elements
On a purely pragmatic level, why does Israel care if they're the bad guy? If a 2 state solution or full integration of all Palestinians into Israel were both DOA, some form of what is going on is the only viable "successful" path forward for Israel.
Israel is obviously not fighting a proxy war on behalf of the UK, it is acting purely in its own self-perceived interest. The UK is not committing genocide by proxy in Gaza and has suspended export licences for materiel like jet and helicopter parts that might be of use in the IDF's campaign. And stanning for Vladimir Putin is never a good look.
I just don't understand why they would want to multiply right now. Unless things aren't as bad in Gaza as people say. I certainly would not be having children during this time of war if I were a Gazan.
Birth rates increase with poverty and decrease with prosperity. Counter-intuitive as it appears, it is a rule.
I made a post a while back with the argument that there was nothing to stop full ethnic cleansing because no step on the slippery slope would ever convince Israel supporters to get off the train.
The thing that might stop it would be refusal of other states to accept the people Israel is proposing to expel.
then they just kill em all Bibi. theres nothing to stop that either. as we have seen for 20 months now and as anybody with half a brain predicted was the end goal.
and yes Pompeous is correct that there is nothing to stop the cleansing and extermination bc international law is only for Putin and African warlords. it is not meant for Westerners who have proven for 100s of years to be the most adept at mass murder.
Bunch of muppets
Israel is obviously not fighting a proxy war on behalf of the UK, it is acting purely in its own self-perceived interest. The UK is not committing genocide by proxy in Gaza and has suspended export licences for materiel like jet and helicopter parts that might be of use in the IDF's campaign. And stanning for Vladimir Putin is never a good look.
If anything Britain is materially supporting Hamas. A large amount of the money and materials Hamas receives are funneled through British “charities” and “NGOs,” with much of the money being provided by the British taxpayer.
So you can feel better about that Jalfrezi
Birth rates increase with poverty and decrease with prosperity. Counter-intuitive as it appears, it is a rule.
Hamas actually gave a press release bragging the Gaza population grew robustly last year; due to an extremely high birth rate, and there being no genocide, ethnic cleansing, or food shortage.
All courtesy of the western tax earner. So If you don’t have a second job yet, you should probably tighten up those boot straps and get one. Astronomical third world population growth isn’t going to pay for itself. That is your job.
Muppets because unlike the hollowed out husk of an ex-human being such as yourself they object to concentration camps.
Muppets because unlike the hollowed out husk of an ex-human being such as yourself they object to concentration camps.
Lol at concentration camps. Honest question are you having some sort of problem in your life or maybe some form of breakdown? You never posted quite this out there before and lately you sound more like a v8c sock account. Maybe you should take a break for a while and for once I'm not being a smart arse.
And yeah they are indeed a bunch of muppets screeching outside the Dail every bloody Saturday disrupting traffic and transport. Nail em up I say. Nail some sense into em.
does being a native to a place give you more rights to that place than people not native to it, jalfrezi?
