Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]
Maybe, but that's been Netanyahu's line for decades now. Iran is doing so-and-so and will have nukes any day now. Right around the corner, jut months away, real soon, we swear. Iran of course is so problematic that it's not worth the risk to try and prove him wrong at this point, but let's at least acknowledge 30+ years of his (and the US's) total bullshit and lack of credibili
Iran had decades to just stop financing and arming hezbollah and hamas (or previous palestinian terror groups). It chose instead to add the houthis to the list of armed and financed iran-sponsored terror groups.
Iran basically thought it had a good shot at being a local hegemone. The USA are teaching it that no, they didn't, and it was only possible because of horrendous mistakes by previous american administrations and by weak and corrupted european governments.
What Iran does domestically only becomes salient at times to rationalize our will to intervene but if Iran had just stopped messing with our geopolitical interests and accepted it had no business outside it's border at all and should be content to exist within it's borders, we would allow it to do whatever it wanted domestically. Same as we do with KSA.
But Iran believed there was a chance thanks to Obama to build an axis with Russia to have significant power in their area. And for a while, it worked for them.
Then Hamas decided to do 7 10 and Iran didn't back down even then, it actually coordinated hezbollah attacks the day after. They thought the west was still weak and incapable of real action. And for a while under Biden again, it was true.
Now they don't have options anymore except, perhaps, a chance to save their lives and flee with some treasury to live comfortably the rest of their miserable lives. Maybe, if we generously allow for it.
It takes another level of privilege and ******ation to believe in something like that.
In a world where having nukes means a nuclear superpower won't declare war on you, Iran should absolutely get nukes.
Southern Spain was conquered by the Moors and also was part of an empire that included Egypt and the Middle East so presumably there were at least a few people from MENA that settled there.
I was on holiday there recently and many are so dark skinned at first glance you might mistake them for Indians, yet we call the Spanish "White".
White and Black are only loosely correlated with someone's actual skin colour. It doesn't help that no one has ever been white or black anyway.
I was on holiday there recently and many are so dark skinned at first glance you might mistake them for Indians, yet we call the Spanish "White".
White and Black are only loosely correlated with someone's actual skin colour. It doesn't help that no one has ever been white or black anyway.
Aside from very recent immigration which is starting to change things a bit, the people you see who look brown, like in Italy, simply tan a lot very fast.
it's very normal for spanish and italians to be as white as finns or the british if they avoid sun completly (say under their underwear) and as brown as a pakistani or indian person is naturally just by walking 30 min per day in the sun, in the exposed parts.
No deflection at all.
How could my personal stance be any different to what I think a non aggressor like Iran should do?
Also, Iran is a non aggressor.
wow. really wow.
So, you found evidence of two racist people in Israel, as proof discrimination?Did you know Muslims just celebrated eid al adha? Have you been to any celebrations? Do you have any real-life relationships? Cause we celebrated here together, day after day, whole communities. Also, when you will have your first ever supreme court Muslim judge, or minister, than lecture us about di
found evidence of a lot more racist people.
you are probably lying but if not, I am sure these people are just nice to you bc they are scared of getting reported and shipped to a torture prison.
Because I'm asking about your stance. Why can't you be a normal person and just answer a simple question
LOL
I said Iran should get nukes but that wasn't clear enough for you.
The genetic data revealed that no significant African component remained in the genetic legacy of the population of the southern Iberian Peninsula compared to other Iberian and European populations, despite North African people living in the region for almost 800 years.
...The analysis of Y chromosomes in the GMA population indic
Part of this is that North Africa itself was basically genetically European until very recently.
Very little genetic admixture with Arabs or subsaharan blacks. Even during the initial Muslim conquests there wasn't as much gene flow as one would expect. Mostly the Arabs conquered and set up their empires, but there wasn't a ton of gene mixing. The local populations mostly just converted to Islam avoid being second class citizens under the Sharia apartheid system. And in the case of Spain, many Spanish who had converted to Islam a few centuries earlier just converted back after the Reconquista.
In fact the quiet part that no one says about the Islamic golden age is that most of the art, science and innovations came from people that had very recently been conquered and converted to Islam, and hadn't yet fully embraced Islam itself in totality. Including in Spain itself which produced many important figures of the Islamic golden age. Once populations fully embraced Islam though, they mostly became very culturally backwards and stagnant; consistent with mainstream Islamic interpretations of how to property live ones life in a pious manner.
You are on an extremely small island in this. Even most Muslims dont think this is a good idea. Pretty much just deluded far leftists like yourself, and no one else.
The Sunni gulf states already announced if/when Iran develops nuclear bombs they will all pursue them also, and it would set up a regional nuclear arms race that everyone agrees would end in nuclear armageddon; given the cultural religious extremism of the area. No one sane actually wants this to happen though, just delusional western leftists.
All else being equal it appears the IRGC would have preferred not to pursue nuclear weapons. Their main priority has always been setting themselves up as an unassailable regional hegemony and destroying Israel for non-rational religious reasons. If they had been able to do this without developing nuclear weapons, as Obama tried to allow them too, then they would have been fine with this.
However, keeping the revolution alive (although it is already more or less walking dead) is a more important priority than nuclear non proliferation, so once they realized it was unlikely they would achieve their objectives without nuclear weapons, they have been pursuing them.
This is just the wrong frame of analysis. His, and MAGAs', "America First" isn't some thought out policy plan or ideology. It's all about feeling good as the big man with the stick again.Hamas is beneath Trump's attention and Trump will never pay the political capital for boots on the ground (not that he gives a **** about American lives. He just doesn't want to get involved in
I mean, he was sophisticated enough to dominate the Republican primaries by getting millions of isolationist right wingers into his coalition, so I doubt he is that simple-minded. The only explanations are that he's compromised or just staggeringly duplicitous. Even if his conviction was strong on Iran the whole time, he sure spent a lot more time talking about being a president of peace, criticizing Biden for getting us into WW3, and talking about 'America first' than his plans for the Middle East.
You are on an extremely small island in this. Even most Muslims dont think this is a good idea. Pretty much just deluded far leftists like yourself, and no one else. The Sunni gulf states already announced if/when Iran develops nuclear bombs they will all pursue them also, and it would set up a regional nuclear arms race that everyone agrees would end in nuclear armageddon;
As the only nuclear power in the ME you’ll doubtless be in favour of forcing Israel to shed its nuclear weapons?
On top of targeting a hospital, the IRGC has admitted it was a highly illegal cluster bomb. The current IRGC strategy seems to be to try to re-establish "deterrence" by demonstrating they will stop at no measures to keep the Revolution alive, and perpetuate their reign of terror over the Iranian people and the whole Middle East.
As the only nuclear power in the ME you’ll doubtless be in favour of forcing Israel to shed its nuclear weapons?
You might as well "force" NK, Russia or Pakistan to shed its nuclear weapons. As good idea as it may seem in the abstract, some ideas are just never going to happen. Also, unlike the former 3, which talks about nuclear weapons all the time to portray strength, Israel never does this. Israel never talks about nuclear weapons at all.
FWIW, I think IF the IRGC remains in power it will develop nuclear weapons. I personally think it already has. But I don't think it is a good idea or want it to happen, like yourself apparently.
On top of targeting a hospital, the IRGC has admitted it was a highly illegal cluster bomb. The current IRGC strategy seems to be to try to re-establish "deterrence" by demonstrating they will stop at no measures to keep the Revolution alive, and perpetuate their reign of terror over the Iranian people and the whole Middle East.
it was a multi-warhead bomb which is much different than a cluster bomb. it wouldnt even make sense to use a cluster bomb on a building. they are used on infranty (or refugee camps if you are Israeli).
As the only nuclear power in the ME you’ll doubtless be in favour of forcing Israel to shed its nuclear weapons?
I think that if we dismantle all other powers in the area and secure the area for the west for the future then we should remove Israel nuclear weapons, it makes sense yes.
But first no country in the area should ever be able to attack Israel (directly or indirectly) again, basically the whole area should become a protectorate governed by us for our interest. As it should always have been.
it was a multi-warhead bomb which is much different than a cluster bomb. it wouldnt even make sense to use a cluster bomb on a building. they are used on infranty (or refugee camps if you are Israeli).
The IRGC goal isn’t to destroy a hospital, although that would be a nice bonus.
The goal is psychology warfare against Israeli civilians, aka terrorism. And cluster bombs, especially ones that don’t all explode and are just sitting around waiting to be tripped by some unsuspecting civilian, are very good for terrorism.
The IRGC goal isn’t to destroy a hospital, although that would be a nice bonus.
The goal is psychology warfare against Israeli civilians, aka terrorism. And cluster bombs, especially ones that don’t all explode and are just sitting around waiting to be tripped by some unsuspecting civilian, are very good for terrorism.
this is pretty rich coming from an Israel supporter
lots of cluster bombs in this article too!
I think that if we dismantle all other powers in the area and secure the area for the west for the future then we should remove Israel nuclear weapons, it makes sense yes.
No outside power can do that. Nor would the US want to put Israel formally under its nuclear umbrella as a trade-off.
But first no country in the area should ever be able to attack Israel (directly or indirectly) again, basically the whole area should become a protectorate governed by us for our interest. As it should always have been.
That's not within the realm of practical politics. Britain found the Palestine Mandate far more trouble than it was worth. As early as 1921 Colonial Secretary Churchill discovered that both the Arab and Jewish sides were determined to be irreconcilable and you couldn't do anything with them.
The Iranians aren't even Arabs or Sunnis, so God knows why they think they're entitled to an opinion on Palestine, but evidently they imagine that through proxy militias and ballistic-missile threats they can make the Middle East their imperial domain and put one over on the Sunni Arab states. This will not work, obviously.
Irsraelis are doing the dirty work for the Americans and Arabs.Everyone knows the IRGC needs some bitch slapping and Iran cannot be allowed to have a nuke. (it's absolute and complete non-sense Iranians aren't building nuclear weapons. It's probably "technically true" they aren't putting weapons together now but it's a complete joke to pretend refining uranium to 80% isn't a ma
Remind me which country has already used nuclear weaponry?
After that, please remind me which country is seen internationally as the number 1 threat to world peace?
IIRC you're at least tangentially connected to the World's Foremost Terrorism Organization (i.e., the US military), so you mayyyyyy be a mite biased towards your particular group of mass murderers. My apologies if you are NOT connected to the World's Foremost Terrorism Organization and merely are just an America#1 brainwashed rando.
If I'm Iran, I'm doing everything possible to achieve a nuclear arsenal, as it's widely regarded to be the best guarantor against an invasion from the US or whomever else.
(note to dog-brained conservatives: the above is in no way support for Iran's government. Sometimes, and this will shock you, EVERYBODY INVOLVED sucks roughly equally, life isn't this binary good v evil fairy tale you people pretend it is)
