The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition
Bad beats are part of the game. I understand that. But after absorbing more than my fair share on Poker Stars I switched
Okay , so im gonna be collecting all my hands for a longer period and have all allin hands put together and analysed .
I want to advise everyone else who has doubts to do the same so we will have more data .
GL
But you dont have doubts, you already have 100% proof. Your words.
And yea only 90 days to download your hands. What a scam lolol.
Luckily GG is tracked pretty well for both tournaments and cg's. What's ur SN there?
It was you words that GOOD END = BAD START
Now you disqualified your own hypothesis, so what is it then? And quantify it.
To really test something we need a rule/hypothesis to test, so give us one. If the hypothesis shows being wrong 5% of the time, its not a working hypothesis and needs work.
Look, it’s an algorithm description of a randomized game. It’s not a statistical proof. I didn’t test “how exactly many times 95% or 99% good end of the tournament leads a player to a bad start of a new one”.
You can ignore this hypothesis. But, other players could check if this happens, they don’t even need to change the strategy in game. Just look at what is going on in these situations.
I’m not interested in defending people from the scam MORE than these people themselves. I don’t earn money for sharing this info, I would say – I have already lost too many time on this.
If players ignore this – I don’t really care. I know what I did – I described the software model of iPoker and Pokerstars. Good luck studying this. Or just keep winning if you are satisfied with your results. That’s all.
I have already tested one btw, I only play 1 or 2 tables on ipoker because i multi-site.
You've always said that multitabler got running waves but I keep on winning as well. Has that debunked the MORE TABLES=BETTER RUN hypothesis or does the site know i am playing other sites?? Wouldnt the site be mad that I play other sites??
Yes, I’m sure that multi-tabling influence on the results, and this looks pretty obvious, how else should it work in case the game is rigged?
Of course the software takes it into account. It’s logical. But to answer your comment I need to know too many details. It’s impossible to know how the room manages players accounts. It’s a hidden info. Okay, we can see it doesn’t work in your case. Good that you manage to win while playing 1-2 tables.
Personally – I don’t think the software controls if you play different sites. Hard to say though.
You've shown us 9 screenshots. On 3 of them we can see you connected with something on the flop. But you say "the software shows me something on the flop almost EVERY time"
3 out of 9 isnt every time Johnny.
Look.
Hand 1 64o – low pair flopped
Hand 2 T6s – flop wasn’t dealt
Hand 3 Q3o – top pair flopped
Hand 4 95o – nothing flopped
Hand 5 Q9o – two pair flopped
Hand 6 66 – flop wasn’t dealt
Hand 7 64s – flop wasn’t dealt
Hand 8 AQo – I didn’t fold my hand on a preflop
Hand 9 AKo – I didn’t fold my hand on a preflop
In the key message regarding iPoker fraud I name the dependency -
In the message above I say, that the software of iPoker provokes a player to take part in the postflop stage of the game (to join the flop) with demonstrating completed combinations on the flop, in case this player folded his hand on a preflop.
So, we have got 4 hands, where I folded my hand on a preflop and the flop was dealt for other players in game – hands 1, 3, 4 and 5.
3 of them my hand hits low pair or better.
Also, do you really consider a board of J86 hitting with 64o?? Maybe thats why you are losing so much 🙂
By “hitting” I mean matching my starting hand with the flop, dealt to other players. It’s about a statistical proof. I explain it in the message –
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showp...
A room doesnt need to mess with the cards to create pots/rake. This will happen naturally. The room that gets the most traffic will earn the most money. And you get more traffic by satisfying your customers. And rigging wont lead to a happy customer base.
In my opinion this statement contradicts with a basic psychology of players, who wanna win even in case they are not good enough, but, it also contradicts with a basic economy.
Helping weak players not to lose their bankrolls fast is not only profitable for the room (the room collects x10 more income or even more in case people lose money for the rake and good pros make not 10BB/100 winrate, but only 5BB/100, for example). But, more than that, these players will be much more satisfied with the game.
Guys, anyone disagree here? It looks pretty obvious to me.
And btw, if this logic holds up. Then live poker must be rigged too. Because live dealers also make more money when the pots are huge. And many dealers can manipulate cards and shuffle them the way they like it. So why doesnt a live casino tell the dealers to get more AQ
I rarely played offline. I can’t comment what is going on the tables there. Yes, they have got a motive for doing this. Do they rig? It’s a question to offline players.
Its getting more wdely known in the community now and i hope it will be their downfall cause every day more people realize whats going on and close their accounts.
This is the only way. Just to inform the community, because Gambling Supervision Authorities simply cover the scam. Too much money involved.
In case he was just a shill, it wasn't that serious. As what he is really doing.
He allows himself to insult and give amoral comments regarding injured people.
To be fair – and I’m not kidding – I can’t believe he wasn’t punished for this. I’m disappointed by the situation. If I didn’t feel responsibility for my materials regarding the fraud of iPoker, I would have left the forum immediately. I don’t understand moderators politics here. I have read forum rules, and moderators just don’t follow it, in favor of aggressive disrespectful people who act the way to “cover” the online poker gambling.
At the same time, I admit, I don’t really know well enough the laws and “traditions” of Europe and USA. May be in your countries it’s normal to make fun of injured people. In fact, I have heard totally different things. They say, people in these countries do respect people with different views/life situations.
Yes, it is impossible to prove without opening of opponents starting hands. Otherwise – the rigging is simply unprovable (almost). I managed to prove this only when I opened my opponent’s hands and proved rigging on iPoker.
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showp...
Of course we can again make the counter argument that within variance anything is possible and discussing about this is kind of pointless since both sides feel sure about their case but neither one can prove anything.
I’m not fully agree with you here. It’s only possible to say “everything can happen” on a poker forum. But not in the competent organizations (in case they don’t cover the fraud, like Curacao does).
Simple example – if no one saw a man shooting he will never be prisoned because Everything could happen. “Someone else could make the shot, we just didn’t manage to find this someone”. But it doesn’t work like that in a real life.
In my case, there is a concrete logic in the software’s behavior. And the chance of rigging is 99.999 999 992%. I mean - and it’s not an analogy, it’s a direct logic - If someone consider 99.9….2% probability is not enough, he has no right to use airplanes. He can’t value his own life lower than “the room’s image”.
There are some “acceptable” standards in a real life.
Somebody should start a new thread ”Do you feel GG is rigged” and a poll with options:
1. Yes (low stakes)
2. No (low stakes)
3. Yes (mid stakes)
3. No (mid stakes)
4. Yes (high stakes)
5. No (high stakes)
6. No comment, want to see the results
Have you done that, guys? I have never played in GG, but the suggestion sounds reasonable. Because I can see many info about the room.
The polls options sound well-thought. Go ahead!
Amazing3338, could you do this?
For the RNG being rigged i havent seen anything close to evidence. Thats why I am on the side I am on.
This is a comment about my materials and Slugant gave it before he watched the report. I mean, he didn’t know the core assumptions of my analysis before saying that.
You can read the discussion. But the comment says everything about the personal position of this forum member –
And this evidence can be correctly done, by actual raw data and analysis by someone with at least half a brain, so not Johnmir.
but I’m 100% confident that if someone could review GG’s cash games and tournaments with all the possible data available, the site would be shut down immediately.
Well, unfortunately, the gambling business is covered on a highest level. Curacao simply ignored all of my messages regarding the scam of iPoker. They didn’t even reply once.
At the same time, even countries which I just “informed” – answered me. Almost everyone.
So, I can’t see a way how GG or any other room could be “closed”.
Well, I’m going to stream predicting of the software soon. You can watch it, because it’s exactly about tournament gaming. And it works almost the same for both iPoker and Pokerstars. I guess, GG works according to a very similar logic. Would be good if you checked my ideas on GG…
That said, it would be nice if all of the people who really believe (insert site name here, because this exact convo has come up for almost EVERY site I've ever played on) is RNG rigged, then pool your database of hands and find the discrepancies.
TeflonDawg, in case it was possible, they have already proven everything. But the game can be rigged the way which is impossible to “discover” without all the opponents hands. This is a huge problem here.
The only way to prove something is to do what I did – go to heads-ups and play some distance to test how software really deals hands by sharing hands of both players in game and comparing it.
I recommend players just to go heads up and play vs each other. Then – analyze the stats with “all the cards visible”. If the game is rigged it will be seen there.
Guys,
Okay , so im gonna be collecting all my hands for a longer period and have all allin hands put together and analysed .
I want to advise everyone else who has doubts to do the same so we will have more data .
GL
And -
I found out about Ignition Casino poker a few years ago, but this year 2025 I began to play poker tournaments seriously.... Particularly the Crazy 8s $12,888 $15+$1.50 and the Nightly $40,000 $50+$5.... I have cashed several times my highest cash was in the nightly at second place for $4144.... It seems like a lot of the time, I flop the world but the run out ends up sucking me
The huge problem here is that we represent different rooms here. I specialize on iPoker, Pokerstars and Partypoker.
And I can tell you, that all the 3 rooms I know how the “RNG” works – is very similar. I can guess, that your sites are working a very close way. And I recommend you to watch my main video about iPoker (Red Star Poker), just to check if all this applies to your rooms. It is not an advertisement, it’s just an advice.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKvqjXv5...
GGruinedPOKER, I have spent a huge time analyzing the allins. I can give you tips, how to check this. So, just ask.
I haven’t got enough free time lately, but, for sure, we can work out something. At least, we can find directions where you should dig dipper and where you shouldn’t (I’m talking about your statistics). But yes, you need to build some data base.
And you should also understand. That Hand2Note or Holdem Manager database – is nothing for the statistical analysis, cause to check critical deviations you need to have data in MS Excel format, so you could implement statistical methods of analysis. Poker trackers are not applicable for that.
Guys here do not understand what variance is, how it is calculated, so that, they are sure that you can calculate variance in poker tracker. But you can’t. Variance is not just a word. It’s a number. Same as winrate or ROI. It’s a concrete value. And we need to check if it lies inside some acceptable confidential interval.
Guys, I have to concentrate on my main life directions, so I have got lower amount of time to communicate.
I’m going to stream my games to show, that the game on iPoker, and, also, on Pokerstars (because the card dealing processes in both companies have much in common), is predictable and complies with a concrete algorithm.
In case the gaming process in your rooms doesn’t meet your expectations I suggest you to watch the stream, or a record of this stream. Most-likely, you will find much in common with the room you play in.
It will be a stream of several SnGs in a row.
In case you watch the record of the stream, feel free to fast-forward some parts of the game, if you see there is no action in game. At the same time, if you noticed some strong hand of me was unexpectedly folded, I recommend you to “come back” and to listen to my comments - why I decided to fold it.
It’s also important, guys, that, while playing, I have to keep in mind a really long game prehistory of my pushes and its positions (I decided to push from), premium hands history (clean/trapped), pocket top pairs, top pairs flopped and many other card dealing nuances. So, it’s really hard to play and to comment simultaneously. It’s much harder than playing a usual poker game. But I will try to play “clean” to let you understand what is going on in the modern online poker sphere.
The first stream is starting on the 22nd of June at 16:00 Moscow local time
(9:00 USA, New York
14:00 London
15:00 Germany, Poland
23:00 Australia, Canberra)
Gl&Hf!
OK, so you too agree that you are not delivering any proof. Just a description of how the algorithm works in your view. I wonder what the gaming commissions do with stuff like this 🙂🙂
You say of course the software takes multitabling into account (you never mentioned this before btw) but you dont know how. If its so obvious ("of course") im sure you can tell how. Otherwise it might not be so "of course"
I rarely played offline. I can’t comment what is going on the tables there. Yes, they have got a motive for doing this. Do they rig? It’s a question to offline players.
And a motive is all we need Johnny. Because the motive online is the same, and there its not a question to the online players. There its lets all listen to our expert poor silly Johnny.
At the same time, I admit, I don’t really know well enough the laws and “traditions” of Europe and USA
Johnny, old delusional Johnny. You are aware that you are from Russia? And still live in Russia. I dont think you should get all moral on which countries are better behaving than others, you just do what Putin tells you to do.
because Gambling Supervision Authorities simply cover the scam. Too much money involved.
in case they don’t cover the fraud, like Curacao does
Well, unfortunately, the gambling business is covered on a highest level. Curacao simply ignored all of my messages regarding the scam of iPoker. They didn’t even reply once.
Is this your newest one? Because before you said they took you very seriously.
And you didnt even send proof, you just send a description of the RNG LOLOL
You havent gotten the result you wanted so they must be part of the fraud???? Classic old miserable Johnny
They havent answered you because they have no time for an old lunatic sore loser with conspiracy theories. Unlike you, they have actual work to do. And like everyone, they dont take you serious at all. Like they should😀
And the chance of rigging is 99.999 999 992%. I mean - and it’s not an analogy, it’s a direct logic - If someone consider 99.9….2% probability is not enough, he has no right to use airplanes. He can’t value his own life lower than “the room’s image”.
And yet you wont take a bet of any kind to test your theories. You really dont believe them either do you?
And you should also understand. That Hand2Note or Holdem Manager database – is nothing for the statistical analysis, cause to check critical deviations you need to have data in MS Excel format, so you could implement statistical methods of analysis. Poker trackers are not applicable for that.
Actually, trackers are perfectly capable of this. When players calculate their variance in models do often use the standard deviation calculated in these trackers for instance. You just like to put in any old number in Excel and say its fact. Its not.
Where are you streaming?
But you dont have doubts, you already have 100% proof. Your words.
And yea only 90 days to download your hands. What a scam lolol.
Luckily GG is tracked pretty well for both tournaments and cg's. What's ur SN there?
I will post all my screennames the same day you escrow a bet about my winnings. Min 10k . Im up 1.2 mil in tournament profits on all sites ,with 4mil total winnings. Im down 60k on GG.
Im not losing big , but im not getting any hands overall and losing 80% of allins in a way that is clearly showing a pattern of manipulation.
Im not seeing many premiums overall in the tournaments and especially deep i only get the AQ 99 s etc and end up losing 9 out of 10 hands.
To everybody : collect all ur hands , im gonna have a team go thru every one of ur allin hands and amount of premiums dealt etc.
U dont have to do the work , just keep downloading ur hands
Ill be back with contact info , my dm is now closed.
you will escrow 10k id assume? And who is this too, who do we both trust?
so the 80% 90% when deep) is just a guess right? because you havent imported your hands yet to see if its really 80% or its part of a confirmation bias.
Its like paisting who complains about running below under ev but then every month posts his graph where he is running above ev 
John, where are you LIVE streaming?
How are you going to prove you know the rng algorithm?
Are you gonna call out boards? Are you going to call out opponents holdings?
What if you are wrong, how does comply with the 99.999999% accuracy?
Because if you play according to the rules of the RNG you wouldnt have a last week like this:
Yes we both excrow , to anyone who is widely considered thrustworthy
Like another poster said , when u play online for 20 + years u get a feel for what is right and what not.
So im pretty confident for that number yes since i literally barely see any final tables. Im obviously not complaining when im losing 50 or 70% of flips.
Why are u fighting so hard to defend GG ? U started out positive encouraging me to start an investigation.
I still am, and therefore I am not a fan of just saying numbers without any evidencial backing
Those are easily refuted and dont get us anywhere. If something is wrong with the RNG I want to see real proof and not something thats described as "get a feel"
Poker has many players with 20 years of experience with a total wrong feel. Johnmir has 20 years experience and considers himself a professional level player yet cant beat 10nl. Paisting has experience and look at the nonsense he brings. A human feel isnt proof and is often flawed because of confirmation bias. Thats why I want to see some real proof.
And like I said before, I consider a lot of what GG does to be very very bad and I am not a fan of GG in general. But I've never seen any proof of their RNG being rigged, only players with a gut feeling. And you must understand why that wont help anything. So GL with the gathering of evidence and I look forward to reading it.
Thank u , proof is coming.
Im obv not happy about having to post on forums but it has gotten to a point that i have to,
I care a lot about poker and the integrity of the game and people should be able to play a fair game.
Poker did a lot for me and teached me everything about life and people.
Out of interest, are you looking for proof of a flawed/rigged RNG (because thats what this thread discussion is about) or other possible harms in online poker such as botting, collusion, RTA and superusing? Because I feel strongly those are a more probable danger for fair play than a poker-room riggin their own RNG.
No i dont know about all those because im not a regular in cash games. I can image that being a problem also.
Maybe more of a reason for them to make a choice to go full casino mode and attract the recs
Johnnie, your LIVE stream starts in an hour but you still havent told us where. And remember, if its not live but you just post a video of hands in the last months thats no proof.
Its almost like you dont want any followers to see that you can prove your 99.9999999% algorithm.
When are you going to end this sham?
I will post you the link to the stream a bit later 
If I play "well", it will be fun
Why delay the stream, whats going on?
And on which platform are you going to stream?? Why cant you answer this
Are you gonna do cherry pick analysis again and post a cut video??
Answer these about your LIVE-stream
How are you going to prove you know the rng algorithm?
Are you gonna call out boards? Are you going to call out opponents holdings?
What if you are wrong, how does comply with the 99.999999% accuracy?
Guys, I'm starting the stream -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lppOeIeV...
JOHN YOU ARE NOT LIVESTREAMING
You are reviewing previous (cherry picked) hands on a livestream
You seriously are one ignorant idiot
I can actually predict outcomes and runouts of reviewed hands with a 100% accuracy.
Jfc, you showing that you fold AJ a month ago isnt predicting or proving the RNG.
Now im 100% sure you are a troll and nothing of what you claim is meant to be taken seriously
Edit: I did have a good laugh that you dont hide your bankroll and its $13 Lolol. Also that you bragged about almost doubling your buy-in when you won $0.38 in a $0.20 sit and go 😃
First hand of the sng..
Johnmir folds a2o... flop a42. 😃😃 yea you really know the algorithm mad Johnnie 🙂
John fold 8d5d
Flop 8c6d3d
Johnnie just give up. You actually seem to be the worst predictor of boards.
You havent predicted anything correct so far, its all wrong.
Then you say its time to push 50bb with 55... opponent has AA
Haha its soo funny. This couldnt have gotten any worse for you.
Well its been been over 40 minutes and somehow you managed to get over 100% of your "predictions" wrong..
Now i know why you wouldnt take the bet hahaha
It was an absolute waste of time but you did make me laugh. Like a toddler makes people laugh when he says or does something stupid. Because the toddler is clueless and doesnt know any better. Just like you😀
Only the toddler will one day grown up and learn. You will never do.
Anyway stream is over with 1 sng and about 6 hands played live. Once again Johnny, zero proof (in fact the opposite) but a bunch of laughs. So thanks for that.
Guys, the stream was actually awful, because I missed right from the first push.
And then there were no games available.
It's really hard to stream and play for me, unfortunately. I just don't understand what is going on the table at all. Even in Russian (language) it was a problem for me. And I also missed several times there.
I deleted the video, cause it's simply senceless. 3 minutes of playing and 1 mistake of 1 push.
In fact, I commit mistakes even when I don't stream. I don't read the software perfectly, cause I stopped analyzing iPoker's gaming process in the end of 2024. So, it looks like I need to seriously come back to gaming to demonstrate really decent predicting. But this totally contradicts with my life plans.
I will publish the results of communicating with Gambling Supervision Authorities and my role in all this is going to end, I hope so.
Your role in all this has ended from the minute you came in here and introduced yourself as a professional level player. It would be wise for you to commit to other hobbies and leave poker alone. It also would be wise for you to seek some mental help as you clearly need some.
About the stream. I watched it and you should re-upload it. Not as evidence but as a comedy of errors. It was hysterical.
I know its extremely hard to press play on a livestream and then go 1table a 0.20 sit and go 😃 It just too much for you hahahah
But this is Johnny in a nutshell
The stream showed him making mistake after mistake. This is evidence he doesnt like. So he deletes it.
Just like in his sample of 500k+ hands he only focuses on 800 of them. The other 499.200 hands are basically deleted.
John, its been fun while is lasted. Poker and you clearly arent a good mix. The gambling authorities will not take you seriously either. And thats without having to see you do everything wrong on a live stream. Also, why would they answer you?? You said, they were in on the whole scam just like everybody else. Because that is what sick Johnny believes... everything that doesnt comply with his view on poker is a shill, fraudster or accomplice. The world is some kind of james bond movie and Johnmir is our unlikely hero. The microstakes loser who just uncovered that everything and everyone in poker must be rigged because somehow he is losing. Well, that was all a fever dream. Johnny, if you even had 1% credibility left, you've lost it now.
Goodbye and good riddance to you 😉
Your role in all this has ended from the minute you came in here and introduced yourself as a professional level player. It would be wise for you to commit to other hobbies and leave poker alone. It also would be wise for you to seek some mental help as you clearly need some.About the stream. I watched it and you should re-upload it. Not as evidence but as a comedy of errors. I
Good bye! Finally.
For other guys.
I will controll the chat. Participate in discussions. But i'm not able to do any special calculations/streams/huge comments any more.
Though, if some of guys will find the stats of GG's allins, if I manage, I could give some tips or watch the stats.
JOHN YOU ARE NOT LIVESTREAMINGYou are reviewing previous (cherry picked) hands on a livestreamYou seriously are one ignorant idiotI can actually predict outcomes and runouts of reviewed hands with a 100% accuracy.Jfc, you showing that you fold AJ a month ago isnt predicting or proving the RNG.Now im 100% sure you are a troll and nothing of what you claim is meant to be taken se
Guys, what is going on with this guy?
I show the end of the previous tournament (since it influences on the start of the next one) and the reaction -
"You are reviewing previous (cherry picked) hands on a livestream
You seriously are one ignorant idiot"
I mean... I don't know what to say.
First hand of the sng..
Johnmir folds a2o... flop a42. 😃😃 yea you really know the algorithm mad Johnnie 🙂
Here - we discussed 2 weeks, that when a player folds his hand the software generate a flop which matches with a starting hand. He seriously comments "Johnmir folds A2o, flop A42"...
What did we discuss before then? ))
I mean, the guy doesn't understand a word here, keep insulting players, keep saying amoral stuff.
A question, what for is he here on the forum? What is the reason of the mods to keep him here?
It's not a ritoric question. Guys, i'm serious now. Any ideas, why is Slugant kept here on 2+2 forum? I mean, is he a son of the forum's owner or what is going on here? Some "untouchable" person?
... A question, what for is he here on the forum? What is the reason of the mods to keep him here?
It's not a ritoric question. Guys, i'm serious now. Any ideas, why is Slugant kept here on 2+2 forum? I mean, is he a son of the forum's owner or what is going on here? Some "untouchable" person?
This is basically an anonymous, uncensored, free speech, open forum, (within sensible reason). It allows users to "ignore" other users by software means at https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/profi..., (although most users simply choose not to respond to other users who annoy them in some way or other). For some users, debating with some other users never leads anywhere but to frustration and chagrin.
Slugant does not have any connection with anyone here and is not untouchable. However, so far, there is no real reason not to "keep" him here; no more so than yourself.
Please continue to argue every small detail with him, or not, as you wish.
