British Politics
Been on holiday for a few weeks, surprised to find no general discussion of British politics so though I'd kick one off.
My main problem is defining supporting PA as terrorism especially when they're peacefully protesting to show said support. Spray painting a plane is vandalism not violence, no different than graffiti. You just have a bee in your bonnet re property but your personal opinion isn't empirical fact. They haven't murdered anyone or planted bombs or engaged in violence from what I've
Wait a sec, IF an entity is a terrorist entity, you would STILL allow peaceful protesting in favor of that entity? or any kind of speech in favour?
So your problem is that the PA "only" vandalizes for political purposes and that is not political terror?
Actually no they can't support violent groups. Not even automatically under the american 1a (it's complicated there) and certainly not in most european countries. There is no freedom to organize to violate other people body or property nor to support anyone who wants to do that.You mentioned brigate rosse and yes, any form of support to them should be considered as being an act
Sure you can. Sinn Fein supported the IRA and are a legal political party. And I never said organising to violate why do you always without fail move goalposts on every single effin discussion, I said support. You can peacefully protesting and express support for PA. Having a sign saying "I oppose genocide I support Palestinian Action" isn't in any way terrorism and only the worst type of draconian freedom hater would think otherwise. And re yor earlier musings nobody argued whether sympathising with terrorist groups was worse than being a racist so stop strawmanning.
People have the freedom to sympathise with who they want, again long as they're not committing crimes. That's it.
Sure you can. Sinn Fein supported the IRA and are a legal political party. And I never said organising to violate why do you always without fail move goalposts on every single effin discussion, I said support. You can peacefully protesting and express support for PA. Having a sign saying "I oppose genocide I support Palestinian Action" isn't in any way terrorism and only the w
Maybe the bold is true under irish constitution/law (no idea), but it certainly isn't in most european countries.
I’d be a terrible hypocrite if I wanted non licensed public drinking banned, considering the number of times I enjoyed it in my youth.
And who hasn’t left a pub at closing time and taken the remainder of a pint into the street with them? Most people have a stack of pint glasses at home, and they didn’t buy them.
Yeah I just didn't then - but I have to admit
there is certainly a culture here that no one gives a ****
So in Italy. if you said you sympathised with Brigate Rosse or the Black Block, the Carabinieri would slap handcuffs on you simply for expressing sympathy?
In Italy it is a crime to express support for ANY CRIME ("apologia di reato", article 414), like stanning for Mangione would be a crime here. Saying "it's good x happened" if x is a crime, is a crime. You cannot express support for any criminal action or any criminal in general. And doing it for terrorism is explicitly an aggravating factor see point 4 (+50% sentencing) as well as doing it with "informatical means" is. Why do you think i always go to a great length to clarify i only support legal actions?
https://app.toga.cloud/codici/codice-pen...
1. Chiunque pubblicamente istiga a commettere uno o più reati è punito, per il solo fatto dell'istigazione:
1) con la reclusione da uno a cinque anni, se trattasi di istigazione a commettere delitti;
2) con la reclusione fino a un anno, ovvero con la multa fino a lire duemila, se trattasi di istigazione a commettere contravvenzioni.
2. Se si tratta di istigazione a commettere uno o più delitti e una o più contravvenzioni, si applica la pena stabilita nel numero 1).
3. Alla pena stabilita nel numero 1) soggiace anche chi pubblicamente fa l'apologia di uno o più delitti. La pena prevista dal presente comma nonché dal primo e dal secondo comma è aumentata se il fatto è commesso attraverso strumenti informatici o telematici.
4. Fuori dei casi di cui all'articolo 302, se l'istigazione o l'apologia di cui ai commi precedenti riguarda delitti di terrorismo o crimini contro l'umanità la pena è aumentata della metà. La pena è aumentata fino a due terzi se il fatto è commesso attraverso strumenti informatici o telematici.
And the promotion of terrorist organizations is a crime (article 270)
Dispositivo dell'art. 270 Codice Penale
Fonti → Codice Penale → LIBRO SECONDO - Dei delitti in particolare → Titolo I - Dei delitti contro la personalità dello stato → Capo I - Dei delitti contro la personalità internazionale dello stato
(1)Chiunque nel territorio dello Stato promuove, costituisce, organizza o dirige associazioni dirette e idonee a sovvertire violentemente gli ordinamenti economici o sociali costituiti nello Stato ovvero a sopprimere violentemente l’ordinamento politico e giuridico dello Stato, è punito con la reclusione da cinque a dieci anni.
Chiunque partecipa alle associazioni di cui al primo comma è punito con la reclusione da uno a tre anni.
Le pene sono aumentate per coloro che ricostituiscono, anche sotto falso nome o forma simulata, le associazioni di cui al primo comma, delle quali sia stato ordinato lo scioglimento(2).
Having laws against terrorism-? Or having laws to proscribe groups you dislike? Big difference there. Hamas are terrorists. Some Nordie muppets like Kneecap waving a Hezbollah flag is hardly terrorism though. Neither is expressing support for groups like Palestinian Action.Start going down that route and terrorism will be anything the authorities want it to be. You can't have
What the law covers is the stuff of politics and we have to fight the political fight for what we want.
A decent society is not a given and has to be fought for continually. We wont always win - we will just about never win if we dont even try. There is no other option. The illusions of it are even more dangerous (even the mericans are starting to notice the bleeeding obvious)
Hopefully the new party will get off the ground. Then it's up to people. The new party doesn't have to come close to winning seats to force labour to be far better.
It's up to us. What do we want and are we willing to vote for it.
What the law covers is the stuff of politics and we have to fight the political fight for what we want.
A decent society is not a given and has to be fought for continually. We wont always win - we will just about never win if we dont even try. There is no other option. The illusions of it are even more dangerous (even the mericans are starting to notice the bleeeding obvious)
...Once again I haven't a scooby what you're trying to say.
The solution to bad uses/versions of laws isn't to not have laws covering the issues. Nor is it to pretend to have a piece of paper that solves everyhting.
It's politics - real live politics.
Ruh-roh!
So in Italy. if you said you sympathised with Brigate Rosse or the Black Block, the Carabinieri would slap handcuffs on you simply for expressing sympathy?
In Italy it is a crime to express support for ANY CRIME ("apologia di reato", article 414), like stanning for Mangione would be a crime here. Saying "it's good x happened" if x is a crime, is a crime. You cannot express sup
He didn't ask you if it was a crime, he asked if the Carabinieri would slap handcuffs on you simply for expressing sympathy?
Wait a sec, IF an entity is a terrorist entity, you would STILL allow peaceful protesting in favor of that entity? or any kind of speech in favour?
Of course.
So your problem is that the PA "only" vandalizes for political purposes and that is not political terror?
No it isn't political "terror" and such a classification is dishonest and stupid.
In Italy it is a crime to express support for ANY CRIME ("apologia di reato", article 414), like stanning for Mangione would be a crime here. Saying "it's good x happened" if x is a crime, is a crime. You cannot express support for any criminal action or any criminal in general. And doing it for terrorism is explicitly an aggravating factor see point 4 (+50% sentencing) as well
As weez pointed out, I never asked you that. If you expressed sympathy with Brigate Rosse or the Black Block or a mafioso being incarcerated under 41 bis, would the Carabinieri arrest you or not?
There was a good problem presented on the radio the other day that has been discussed in a roundabout way here - wealth taxes. The argument went that Baby Boomers are holding a huge amount of wealth that without intervention in the next decade or so, this will be passed down to their children.
Given that neither Baby Boomers or their Gen X beneficiaries are going to vote for giving up a large chunk of this inheritance, and these demographics will fundamentally decide any election, how does any government ensure a more equitable distribution of what is largely unearned wealth?
Odd how you like redistributive left wing policies when they favour you but not when they favour others more disadvantaged.
One obvious thing is to raise inheritance tax which would reduce the lottery of birth and give every kid more of an equal chance, but there are simple ways around this eg property transfer.
Taxing high earners on income is avoided through dodgy accounting and investment schemes, so really the best and easiest to collect wealth tax is on property.
My fave yt channel these days.Can’t speak highly enough of this chaps descriptions and tours of London pubs.
Ok Idk why but I got completely hooked and watched like 5 vids of him.
As weez pointed out, I never asked you that. If you expressed sympathy with Brigate Rosse or the Black Block or a mafioso being incarcerated under 41 bis, would the Carabinieri arrest you or not?
They had anti 41-bis demonstrations a while ago, 11 people got arrested. 10 were found guilty with sentences from 18 months to 55 months
For demonstration or engaging in violence at said demonstration? Was this over Cospito?
They had anti 41-bis demonstrations a while ago, 11 people got arrested. 10 were found guilty with sentences from 18 months to 55 months
Okay Lucio, I did some digging and the arrests were under article 337- resisting a public official. They were done for rioting basically and this is not the same as being arrested merely for expressing support or sympathy, so as usual, you're full of shite.
Now I'm gonna ask again- would the carabinieri slap handcuffs on you simply for expressing sympathy or support for a cause, such as Brigate Rosse, the Black Block or anti 41 bis? And if you could actually answer truthfully this time, I'd be most appreciative, thanks in advance.
Interesting article
about Matthew Goodwin, ex-academic, pollster, and now polemicist for the far right.
[strike]Guys[/strike]Lads we're friends again! 😀
Can a friend from the UK find UK news snippets of anchors pronouncing "Wadephul"?
