GOAT NBA Discussion: Biggest fraud poster: fallguy. Super AIDS Containment thread

Ok Nice conclusion.
About the logic with it ?
Since this is st the core of all your basketball narrative why dirk and h Akeem aren’t top 10 ?
Why you got Russel at number 2 .
I mean if its that important using that fascist to diss Lebron not being top 10 ?

Stop lying - I posted actual quotes from Shaq saying that Pippen wasn't a factor on the scouting report, so it's VALID - it isn't my opinion - it's Shaq's

Isiah said Pippen was a bus rider - his words - not mine

Reggie Miller, Magic and Kenny Smith said the Bulls were a 1-man team - their words, not mine

Dominique said Pippen was a role player and couldn't stop him..

So you're discrediting yourself by posting a quote saying Pippen was a good defender, and pretending this counters everyone saying he was carried and a bus rider or role player.

The point is that Pippen was carried and forced MJ to carry the Bulls more than anyone ever carried a team... Pippen was carried to 6 titles and all the stats and facts support this.. Without 6 chips, he's a nobody with no media accolade - another Harvey Grant.

Pippen was handed a fully-developed goat dynasty that he cratered quickly by 95'- he never had to build anything anything because he wasn't a sufficient producer to build around.. carry on

The idea is to need less help to win, such as 2nd options at sidekick instead needing 1st options at sidekick.. Lebron needed 1st options at sidekick, so he's inferior to guys that could win with 2nd options like Kobe Curry, MJ or Duncan.

Ultimately, anyone that won more than 2 Finals needed a teammate to get 25 PPG or FMVP for at least 1 of the Finals, except Pippen peaked at 21 PPG and is 0/6 in FMVP.

Imagine if Pippen dominated Barkley in the 93' Finals - MJ wouldn't be considered goat - it's simple... Yet Lebron's chips are marred with teammates dominating and making it impossible to lose.. AD dominated Jokic and led the NBA in playoff scoring, or Kyrie dominated Curry and Wade dominated Dirk... Otoh, none of Pippen's performances made it impossible to lose, while most of them were weak and required winning IN SPITE of them.

And again - Russell's criteria is different because defense won in 2-pointer basketball, so offensive help is irrelevant for players in the 2-pointer eras

Needing less help to win would be more achievable when the league is weaker, or stronger?

If the league was more deep, would it take more help to win?

Just curious your opinion, thanks.

lol @ early 90s being a 3 point era when teams averaged 2 three pointers a game.

i vote labron, he's the best!!!

They had to move the line in because the players were such useless shooters.

It's very rare that a sport has to change its boundaries because of player incompetence. Coaching was obviously incompetent too.

It's absolutely embarrassing to think about.

Wow, a 46 year streak in which the average NBA player height is 6'7"

Once the 3-point line was instituted in 1980, league-wide ORtg saw it's biggest 1-year increase ever, and 45 of 45 MVP's from that point forward were dominant offensive players - this is how we know that Russell wouldn't be MVP-caliber in the modern era (3-pointer basketball)...

Since you aren't a player, you don't understand how it works - coaches in practice would have players stand at the 3-point line to start plays - so the 3-point line was a natural marker and spacer even if it wasn't used.. With the greater spacing affording advantages to the offense, MVP's must be dominant offensive players from that point forward.. So guys like Russell can't leverage the lack of spacing anymore because teams started to have more spacing in 1980.

today's players are shorter, less durable and weaker from a mental and physical stand point compared to prior eras.. They have weak achilles that snap when the comp gets too intense.. this is one of many reasons why today's players couldn't play in previous eras - weak muscles, bones, joints and tendons compared to prior eras... too many "embiids"

we can confirm that today's era is super-weak because the wide open driving lanes allows non-shooters like Wesbtrick, Giannis or Lebron to achieve great numbers... Non-shooters can get a 30 PER by simply going downhill and exploiting the wide open paint.

Otoh, the lesser spacing of previous eras forced all scorers to shoot over packed paints, so great shooting from mid-range or 3 was REQUIRED to be a good scorer back then - there weren't any non-shooting bricklayers among the scoring leaders... There were no unskilled, "downhill" bricklayers back then, while today's hands-off, spaced-out beginner format allows them to permeate today's game.. carry on

^^^ this nonsense has been refuted 100 times and you just ignore the facts.

we can confirm that today's era is super-weak because the wide open driving lanes allows non-shooters like Wesbtrick, Giannis or Lebron to achieve great numbers... Non-shooters can get a 30 PER by simply going downhill and exploiting the wide open paint.

Otoh, the lesser spacing of previous eras forced all scorers to shoot over packed paints, so great shooting from mid-range or 3 was REQUIRED to be a good scorer back then - there weren't any non-shooting bricklayers among the scoring leaders... There were no unskilled, "downhill" bricklayers back then, while today's hands-off, spaced-out beginner format allows them to permeate today's game.. carry on

Today's players are shorter, less durable and weaker from a mental and physical stand point compared to prior eras.. They have weak achilles that snap when the comp gets too intense.. this is one of many reasons why today's players couldn't play in previous eras - weak muscles, bones, joints and tendons compared to prior eras... too many "embiids"

The weaker physical and mental make up of today's players is in addition to the lack of elite mid-range or 3-point shooting from many of today's stars like Giannis, Westbrook and Lebron, who exploit today's spaced-out, hands-off beginner format... Today's beginner format allows "dumb-ball", aka "downhill", aka playground style where 1 guy dribbles the whole time.. Again, it's dumb-ball, but the dumb media puts a euphemism on it and says it's "heliocentric".. It's stunning how clueless the media is.

the US has fallen to 40th in the world in education, and Lebron fans demonstrate this better than anyone... If you want to find a dumb person or someone that lacks insight, then just find a Lebron fan (a fraud victim).

by Montrealcorp m

and yet bull dynasty wasnt in a 2 pointer era right ?russel era ? highest FA in basketball history.....russel era amongst the highest scored pts average in a seasonmj winnings near the lowest scored average ..

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_stats_per_game.html

Basketball-Reference.com

NBA League Averages - Per Game | Basketball-Reference.com

yet u diss pippen even tho the "criteria" you use for russell should be more apply to pippen lol...nah ... See full post

The 3-point line naturally adds spacing to the floor - it's a marker that coaches use to make players stand when introducing new plays or offenses - it's always been a natural spacer compared to no 3-point line on the floor.. This extra spacing is why league-wide ORtg had record increase in 1980 when the line was introduced, and it's also why 45 of 45 MVP's have been dominant offensive players since 1980

So you lost the argument - it's valid to use different criteria for 2-pointer hoopers like Russell, compared to modern hoops that had the natural spacer of a 3-point line on the floor.

Lebron's casts from 2006 to 2010 were equivalent or better than Jordan's title casts, based on better scoring and defensive help than the 1st three-peat Bulls, and FAR better scoring help than the 2nd three-peat Bulls..

They also had better rebounding and rim protection than the 1st three-peat Bulls, and better rim protection than the 2nd three-peat Bulls.

Mo and Hughes lost because Lebron never carried them like MJ carried Pippen..

The numbers show that MJ carried Pippen more by averaging 40 ppg to Pippen's 15 ppg against the #1 SRS Cavs in 1989 - that's a bigger carry-job than Lebron in the 09' Finals...

Jordan was also goat clutch in that series with "the shot" over Ehlo, while Lebron was horrific in the clutch - it's night and day.

We can prove that it's Lebron's fault that he lost as a massive favorite to the 09' Magic.

Lebron's skillset and style of play lowers everyone's assists, and anytime this resulted in less team assists than the opponent in a playoff series, he lost - i.e. every series loss of Lebron's playoff career shows deficits in team assists.

To summarize - Lebron's team MUST out-assist the opponent to win a playoff series, and he failed to do this against the Magic and virtually every series loss of his playoff career.. Team assists is simply the key to Lebron winning a playoff series because it's the primary weakness of his game - he must overcome it each time to win.

^^^ This ties into Lebron having insufficient brand of ball at carry-job volume to beat top teams - i.e. the more he scores and has the ball, the more likely his team will have an assist deficit (series loss)... Btw, It's a big deal to go from disadvantage to upperhand - a totally different brand of ball is often required.- so a 1 or 2 assist deficit can be a big deal and represent an entirely different brand of ball.

Thread Cliffs

2/4, 1/4, and 1/6 means that Lebron underachieved at every stop.

He won ,sixty games once in 15 seasons with Wade, Bosh, Kyrie, Love, AD and Luka - that's 6 franchise players, aka the most help ever, yet 60 wins once in 15 seasons.

"Not 6, not 7" turned into 2/4 including goat choke and record loss - these record losses bookended teammate bailout and a win over babies - that's the worst anyone can do and the shakiest 2/4 ever.

Lebron lost with homecourt 5 times, which included a record 3 straight losses as the favorite 09-11'... These upset losses made oddsmakers look bad, so they made Lebron's veteran super-team an underdog to baby Westbrick in 12' - this is objectively pathetic

Ultimately, Lebron fell from preseason favorite to underdog or loser for 6 straight years (11-16'), except the Allen miracle.. The fall to underdog is due to bad chemistry and brand of ball, since the on-paper talent is favored (preseason favorite).

However, Lebron's biggest underachievement of expectation is more simple... Specifically, when Lebron entered the league, no one expected him to give up after Year 7 and team up with opponents thereafter (cheat code) - needing to team-up/collude/cheat is the essence of failure.

Holy hell a 40 year old LeBron got to play 28 games with an overweight coming off an injury Luca and he didn't win. What a fraud!!!

Since I'm not you I would realise that 1980 was just a continuation of the previous 14 years where 13 of the MVPs were offensively minded players and it had nothing to do with the 3 point line, and that people started caring less about defensive players as MVP candidates.

I'd also realise that the year they introduced the 3 point line wasn't the biggest increase in Offensive rating at all. It was actually the year before, when 3 pointers weren't around. I would be smart enough to realise a team taking less than 1 3 pointer a quarter wouldn't have made any difference (they probably averaged shooting that many from that distance the season before, it's just they were 2 pointers).

I can't believe it took 8 years of 3 point shooting before teams averaged taking more than 1 3 pointer a quarter. Really shows how bad basketball was back then.

1st Round upset loss with a top 3 player = BAD... So LeOld is bad... ..

I think he's the only negative player to ever make All-NBA, so he's a clear-cut fraud that the media is propping up.

The 1st Round upset loss was a failure of expectation, which is standard for Lebron, since 2/4, 1/4, and 1/6 means that Lebron underachieved at every stop.

He won sixty games once in 15 seasons with Wade, Bosh, Kyrie, Love, AD and Luka - that's 6 franchise players, aka the most help ever, yet he couldn't win 60 games.. "Not 6, not 7" turned into 2/4 including goat choke and record loss.

Lebron lost with homecourt 5 times, which included a record 3 straight losses as the favorite from 09-11'... These upset losses made oddsmakers look bad, so they made Lebron's veteran super-team an underdog to baby Westbrick in 12' - this is objectively pathetic

Ultimately, Lebron fell from preseason favorite to underdog or loser for 6 straight years (11-16'), except the Allen miracle.. The fall to underdog is due to bad chemistry and brand of ball, since the on-paper talent is favored (preseason favorite).

However, Lebron's biggest underachievement of expectation is more simple... Specifically, when Lebron entered the league, no one expected him to give up after Year 7 and team up with opponents thereafter (cheat code) - needing to team-up/collude/cheat is the essence of failure.

^^^^ You didn't show offensive rating (ORtg) in your image.

You showed PPG, which isn't pace-adjusted - you mistook PPG for ORtg, which is pretty dumb

Otoh, the 2 biggest increases in league wide ORtg are 1980 when the 3-point line was introduced, and then the change to a beginner format in 2005 with the hand-check ban:

3-point line is introduced:





hand-check ban and defensive 3:

Obviously, the switch to a beginner format in 2005 exploded league-wide ORtg... But prior to this, the inception of the 3-point line was the biggest increase in league-wide ORtg - it provided a marker on the floor that coaches would make players stand when teaching new plays and offenses, so players world-wide stood further from the rim than before.. You would know this is you had been in a single basketball practice in your life.. lol

So again, players like Russell that played in 2-pointer basketball have different criteria than guys that played in the spacing of 3-pointer basketball.. Specifically, MVP's in 3-pointer basketball must be dominant offensive players, while MVP's in 2-pointer basketball can be either because defense was a greater winning factor in the absence of spacing... It's pretty simple and intuitive.

Accordingly, my rankings stand - MJ, Russell, Wilt, Kareem, Kobe, Bird, Duncan, Shaq, Curry, Jokic

What is wrong with you? ORTG is in the image I posted. Literally says the same as you, and once again proved that you were wrong because the season before increased by 2.9

And then you double down with "But prior to this, the inception of the 3-point line was the biggest increase in league-wide ORtg".

But there were a handful of seasons with bigger increases than the 3 point season before that.

I'll give you 2005 being a big increase. The main reason for this was because defensives got better and the game was becoming unwatchable.

The game was exciting as hell in the early 2000's - completely watchable and the ratings/enthusiasm show that.. No one thought it was unwatchable, which is why it was a surprise to most fans when the rules were changed.. It turns out that Stu Jackson was the mastermind behind the rule changes and his vision was to remove/reduce physical contact on the perimeter, thereby allowing more drive-and-kick basketball and therefore threes - they wanted to increase threes - that's why the rules were changed.. This is a historical fact and the mainstream interviews in the mid-late 2000's where Stu Jackson said exactly what I just paraphrased above should be available online.

Secondly, regarding 1980, we don't only have one of the larger increases of ORTG to consider, we also have the stark change in the type of player that received media accolade, specifically MVP.. Dominant offensive players became exclusively required due to the increase in spacing and flow that I mentioned earlier - the mere presence of a 3-point line spaced the court compared to a barren court with no line and everyone bunched up under the rim.. Btw, prior to 1980, many players won MVP with under 23 ppg, while none did after 1980, except all-time floor generals that were getting all the assists... The Cowens, Unselds, and Russell's of the world were gone as MVP - they were weaker offensive players that piled on by dominating the already-unspaced defensive format of 2-pointer basketball (barren court - no 3-point line - everyone bunched up under rim).

Since there was a shift in the type of player that was generally valued when the 3-point line began, it makes sense to have different criteria for players that played with a 3-point line, versus players that didn't.. Guys that played without a 3-point line don't have to be dominant offensive players like my requirements for players in 3-pointer basketball, aka carrying scoring load/brand of ball, etc.. Therefore, my rankings stand - MJ, Russell, Wilt, Kareem, Kobe, Bird, Duncan, Shaq, Curry, Jokic

Ridiculous post that been debunked many times .
Example , 20ppg more (LeBron) from his second option is a bigger scoring load then 15 ppg (mj) …

Anyway, getting boring to repeat ad nauseam the same thing .
Bye.

Can’t fix delusional with facts , it takes a pill ….