Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]
Right so to skip 10+ posts of us going back and forth, people like you are now fine with killing 20+ people to take out cameras. The excuse is no longer ''well yes we killed a ****ton of women and children but also actual terrorists'' instead it's ''We now kill women, children and journalists in order to destroy equipment like these extremely dangerous ''hamas'' security camera
I think you are conceding the narrative too easily here. Hasbarats are very good at getting people to do this. but the fact is that there was no "Hamas camera" (whatever that means) and the camera they were going after belonged to Reuters journalist.
Haaretz paywalled:
Haaretz unpaywalled: https://archive.ph/Wiefu
this is the camera and other equipment (I think this man was killed shortly after)
so if Hamas (terrorist group) is not going to disarm, what are we even talking about here?
and no, the news article you quoted said a coalition/shared governance model. That doesn’t mean Hamas will go away dumbass, it just means they will end their stranglehold on elections temporarily.
where does it say they will be involved? you are making wild leaps with nothing to back it up but your own fantasies.
22 months into the war it should be clear that anyone associated with or around Hamas is in danger.
You remind me of my 3 year old. We'll be talking about something and mid sentence he'll change the subject and start talking about something else. Just like you, he is also not very educated(yet).
I think you are conceding the narrative too easily here. Hasbarats are very good at getting people to do this. but the fact is that there was no "Hamas camera" (whatever that means) and the camera they were going after belonged to Reuters journalist.Haaretz paywalled:
Was just responding to Doylebrunson justifying the murder of 20 people. I have no idea what a ''Hamas camera'' is supposed to be nor is it relevant if it was a ''Hamas camera''.
right, I dont know what a Hamas camera is either. I would say its just a made up thing by genocide supporters to support bombing a hospital. and I agree that it doesnt matter but these people will just latch onto any irrelevant or absurd detail to justify the slaughter.
one ironic part of this is that these people were some of the most Westernized Palestinians. they worked for Haaretz, Reuters, and the AP. it goes to show that the whole point of this project is to exterminate the people.
where does it say they will be involved? you are making wild leaps with nothing to back it up but your own fantasies.
Though he reiterated Hamas’ offer to integrate into a Palestinian unity government, Basem Naim said the group would only disarm and transform into a purely political party if Palestinians are granted an independent political state — a condition that Netanyahu and his right-wing allies in government have repeatedly rejected.
bro doesn’t read his own article
Hamas did not start this. Hamas didn't even exist when this started.
no I just understand that an out of context non-quote does not supersede all of the reporting agreeing that Hamas will step down from governing.
it doesnt really matter bc people like you will throw a fit if a low level Hamas relative stays on as a civil servant secretary for the assistant dog catcher and use that as justification to murder thousands of children.
at this point its clear to everyone why you and the rest of the genocide supporters want Hamas to disarm.
I hope we can all appreciate that calling someone an AP or Reuters "journalist" is bad faith in itself. There is absolutely no real journalism in Gaza. What there is are propaganda mouthpieces for Hamas, either explicitly or indirectly, who do propaganda that support them, and then sells the "journalism" to outlets like Reuters or AP.
All these people are believers so they aren't really being compelled, but they don't do any real journalism land wouldn't be permitted to even if they were inclined. Everything is in support of Hamas and the war cause. And nothing negative of Hamas is ever said.
no I just understand that an out of context non-quote does not supersede all of the reporting agreeing that Hamas will step down from governing.it doesnt really matter bc people like you will throw a fit if a low level Hamas relative stays on as a civil servant secretary for the assistant dog catcher and use that as justification to murder thousands of children. at this point
I’m not the one that thinks it’s the duty of all innocent Palestinian civilians in Gaza to be in the killing field so that the international community can point at the death toll as reason to prosecute Netanyahu for genocide. Which is all well-attested as well that the international community refused to facilitate the transfer of refugees so that Israel couldn’t take over the Gaza.
Anyway the point is that the thing you said was on the table was never on the table. Trying to make this about broader issues is just an obfuscation.
I hope we can all appreciate that calling someone an AP or Reuters "journalist" is bad faith in itself. There is absolutely no real journalism in Gaza. What there is are propaganda mouthpieces for Hamas, either explicitly or indirectly, who do propaganda that support them, and then sells the "journalism" to outlets like Reuters or AP. All these people are believers so they a
What we can all appreciate is that people like you will say and believe just about anything to justify the killing of innocent people.
I’m not the one that thinks it’s the duty of all innocent Palestinian civilians in Gaza to be in the killing field so that the international community can point at the death toll as reason to prosecute Netanyahu for genocide. Which is all well-attested as well that the international community refused to facilitate the transfer of refugees so that Israel couldn’
no, Hamas agreed to step down and relinquish governing the Gaza strip. you can argue that its all a ruse by the shady antisemites but the facts are that even a few days ago Hamas agreed to allow an independent non-political government to take over.
no, Hamas agreed to step down and relinquish governing the Gaza strip. you can argue that its all a ruse by the shady antisemites but the facts are that even a few days ago Hamas agreed to allow an independent non-political government to take over.
Notice nothing in there about giving up their arms or the hostages.
Even if you were to take this proclamation at face value (there is no real reason to do this), if Hamas remains as an independent paramilitary they will be the defacto authority with veto power over any civil authority. Which is a non starter.
Hamas also demands that all these demands are met before they slowly start trickling back hostages. Again a non starter.
Since 10/8/2023 Hamas has been adamant about conditions which are a complete non starter for Israel. And doing this from a position of weakness (their only leverage being their complete indifference to the well-being of the people they profess to serve*).
So here we are.
*At least in this life. All indications they are serious in their belief that all the Palestinian people who are suffering and dying will be rewarded in the afterlife by Allah, and for this reason their sacrifice should be celebrated.
What we can all appreciate is that people like you will say and believe just about anything to justify the killing of innocent people.
It is a war. People die in wars. Whereas most of the rest of the world has been peaceful since the end of WWII, MENA is the notable exception.
Wars happen a lot in the MENA. And people die. And this isn't even a particularly deadly or inhumane one as far as ME wars go. Yemen, Syria, Sudan are recent wars that have been much worse by pretty much any dimension you can think of.
It is absurd that Hamas did 10/7, has been getting their **** pushed in since, and 2 years in are still holding hostages and making demands. And the rest of the world just shrugs their shoulders and seems ok with this. There should have been a complete unconditional surrender a long time ago. Everyone laying down their arms. Max pressure should have been put on Hamas from the entire world to facilitate this.
And the international community should be in the middle of rebuilding Gaza and a de-radicalized Palestinian society. But we cant have any of this because Hamas are such asses, Palestinians are way too radicalized, and the rest of the world is way too agnostic and complicit in this.
bro wut
you guys are just incapable of reading. its ok, I mean the liberals at UP either cant or refuse to read as well. but like, what is going on with our society? maybe its all the participation trophies and inclusivity. you guys just think you can make up reality in your heads and ignore actual objectivity.
Israeli's Channel 14 correspondent Hallel Bitton Rosen reported that Israeli soldiers involved in the Nasser Hospital attack said the strikes were “approved and coordinated with senior command”, contradicting Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s statement.
Yet more lies from the Israeli government.
bro wut you guys are just incapable of reading. its ok, I mean the liberals at UP either cant or refuse to read as well. but like, what is going on with our society? maybe its all the participation trophies and inclusivity. you guys just think you can make up reality in your heads and ignore actual objectivity.
That blurb supports my points, not yours. And it would definitely go much slower than this. And even if it went this fast there are more than 10 living hostages. So that would involve only releasing 10 living hostages over months. Like I said, trickling out hostages.
Like I said, if the world was approaching this sanely, the only negotiations would be working out what to do with known Hamas members and other militants (exile, prison, amnesty, etc.)
The laying down the arms and releasing all the hostages immediately would be an unconditional demand. And max pressure should be put on Hamas sponsors, Qatar too.
But unfortunately we live in a world where much of the west has been bought and paid for by Qatar; on top of the US propping up terrorism from the Sunni Gulf states the last 80 years for geopolitical reasons.
So we have to do this bad faith Kabuki theatre and people continue to die.
It is a war. People die in wars. Whereas most of the rest of the world has been peaceful since the end of WWII, MENA is the notable exception. Wars happen a lot in the MENA. And people die. And this isn't even a particularly deadly or inhumane one as far as ME wars go. Yemen, Syria, Sudan are recent wars that have been much worse by pretty much any dimension you can think
This is like the 4th time you've brought up different wars. You realize we're in the Israel/Palestine thread yes? If you wish to debate the Sudan war we can, lets create another thread.
The rest is just noise, it's completely irrelevant to what we are talking about right now. Your response was to the intentional double strike of a hospital killing 20+ people. If you can't condemn this, you're simply no better than Victor.
The fact that most of those who were killed were struck by the second attack at precisely the same location around 10 minutes later appears clearly intentional.
This is like the 4th time you've brought up different wars. You realize we're in the Israel/Palestine thread yes? If you wish to debate the Sudan war we can, lets create another thread. The rest is just noise, it's completely irrelevant to what we are talking about right now. Your response was to the intentional double strike of a hospital killing 20+ people. If you can't conde
None of us are privy towards Israel and Hamas strategic and tactical decisions. If we were privy and even attempting to be objective, I am fully confident we would be more critical of Hamas. Other than confirming your biases, getting outraged over single events with very incomplete (if not false) information is an exercise in bad faith.
Hamas lays traps attacking rescue workers. And even posts videos bragging about it, normally pretending they are more effective than they are. And no shits are given. So why should I be outraged one side may (or may not) have done something the other side literally brags about doing, to the point they lie to make up it worked better than it did.
That being said, I do appreciate you guys implicitly acknowledging most of the outrage news coming out of Gaza is completely made up. And this is one of the rare incidents where there is some truth to it, which is why so much energy is being put into it to take advantage of the situation to provide Hamas leverage to operate moving forward.
Hamas started this and refuses to end it. At this point, I think the Israelis are justified to do what they need to while incurring the least amount of casualties.
And you would consider a Dresden-style massacre of 20k civilians in two days an acceptable response by the IDF?
None of us are privy towards Israel and Hamas strategic and tactical decisions. If we were privy and even attempting to be objective, I am fully confident we would be more critical of Hamas. Other than confirming your biases, getting outraged over single events with very incomplete (if not false) information is an exercise in bad faith.
You're still under the impression you're talking to Victor or something. I've said before that if I could press a button to get rid of Hamas I would. I'm of the opinion that the Palestinian people are oppressed by Hamas. Hamas aren't the good guys. They're the worst party in a ''war'' between 2 evil sides. Yes, Israel is the other side.
You should be outraged that Israel is intentionally killing innocent people. Again, if you're not, you're no better than Victor.
Dun should see that you are on his side and support the genocide of the Palestinians. you guys just prefer different methods.
pretty sure the Palestinian people support Hamas and the resistance. maybe you should listen to them and not project your own ideas on them.
it doesnt mean death. again, you are wildly misinformed by propaganda. its really easy to just read and listen to Palestinians.
