In other news
In the current news climate we see that some figures and events tend to dominate the front-pages heavily. Still, there a
Fair, I just don’t know what you’re arguing about with me. My issue is with saying things like “Women having access to highschool lowers fertility” which is an inaccurate and dangerously misleading statement. Maybe that’s not as pressing to you as fiddling with useless stats.
That’s just standard Luciom deliberately trying to imply something that he can’t argue. When you’ve seen him rant about “immigrant crime” when talking about someone born in Wales, you’ve seen the lot.
Of course he isn’t, but he is intentionally blurring the language to suit his agenda that women having nice things is the problem
Women going to highschool has zero effect on fertility
I didn't think he was saying that anything was a problem. I certainly think it's a great thing that people are having fewer children.
I disagree with you about women's education not mattering, but it is difficult to separate that from income, as they normally go together.
Edit - oh, I guess again you're meaning the actual physical ability to bear children. You're even confusing me now. No one else was saying anything about that, which should be obvious.
Fair, I just don’t know what you’re arguing about with me. My issue is with saying things like “Women having access to highschool lowers fertility” which is an inaccurate and dangerously misleading statement. Maybe that’s not as pressing to you as fiddling with useless stats.
I'm absolutely certain it wasn't misleading to anyone here. I never even considered the possibility that he meant anything physical, and I'm sure that he didn't either, as that would be completely ridiculous.
not amusing at all but no I have no solution.
there is plenty of data about how access to high school.for women decreases fertility dramatically controlling for everything else, the best is from Bangladesh but there is some for south America as well.
Where women have access to education, they have more choice, opportunity and autonomy, and they tend to choose to have fewer children for pretty obvious reasons.
I didn't think he was saying that anything was a problem. I certainly think it's a great thing that people are having fewer children.I disagree with you about women's education not mattering, but it is difficult to separate that from income, as they normally go together.Edit - oh, I guess again you're meaning the actual physical ability to bear children. You're even confusing
Ok, but this is the issue. We’re discussing “fertility” and the fertility rate, but fertility (the ability to have children) is not going down, only the rate is.
So when we say things like “Women having access to high school lowers fertility” in the context of looking for a cause, the cause is not access to highschool but rather in what way being educated affects women’s choices and why then those choices skew toward having fewer children.
And the answers to the issues won’t be to limit women’s access to education, or social mobility, or career and wealth opportunities or assign them as sex partners to lonely men. The answer is how to create a society in which women with all these opportunities still choose to have children. Clearly the one we’re dealing with now isn’t cutting it.
In my opinion, this whole discussion is an exercise in fertility.
Ok, but this is the issue. We’re discussing “fertility” and the fertility rate, but fertility (the ability to have children) is not going down, only the rate is.So when we say things like “Women having access to high school lowers fertility” in the context of looking for a cause, the cause is not access to highschool but rather in what way being educated affects women’s choice
I'm pretty sure all studies point to sperm counts being lower.
It’s like you’re not getting it.
In a world where women are the sole deciders for having children, you must create a world where having children is a desirable choice.
Discussing anything else is just going backward and that’s pointless.
Low sperm counts are the result of greater female participation in higher education - Luciom probably.
It’s like you’re not getting it.
In a world where women are the sole deciders for having children, you must create a world where having children is a desirable choice.
Discussing anything else is just going backward and that’s pointless.
The provision of adequately funded childcare is critical, especially in countries where women are able to have long and successful careers, or they will naturally defer starting a family until they’re in a better financial position, giving them fewer fertile years and therefore fewer children.
Did sarcasm get real?
Musk talks bollocks about the amazing things he is going to do. Yeah if you do that we'll give you a trillion dollars
Tesla boss Elon Musk will receive a pay package worth over $1tn (£740bn) if he hits a list of ambitious targets over the next decade, the board of the electric car firm has proposed.
To get the package, Musk, who is already the world's richest person, would need to boost Tesla's value eightfold, sell a million artificial intelligence robots, sell another 12 million Tesla cars, and hit several other moonshot goals.
Did sarcasm get real?
Musk talks bollocks about the amazing things he is going to do. Yeah if you do that we'll give you a trillion dollars
Sure proves corporations and the richest needs tax cuts .
They don’t have enough money to get paid decently , they work so hard .
FWIW , 100 billions yearly is around the 70th country in gdp .
Exceeding the economy of countries such has Luxembourg, Panama, many previous ussr nations.
Yup no bubble there in the markets .
Ok, but this is the issue. We’re discussing “fertility” and the fertility rate, but fertility (the ability to have children) is not going down, only the rate is.So when we say things like “Women having access to high school lowers fertility” in the context of looking for a cause, the cause is not access to highschool but rather in what way being educated affects women’s choice
It's not at all the issue, because you are the only one who apparently didn't understand how obvious it was that fertility rate was what we were discussing. Rate was even in the map with his original post. All you have done is muddy the waters.
It’s like you’re not getting it.
In a world where women are the sole deciders for having children, you must create a world where having children is a desirable choice.
Discussing anything else is just going backward and that’s pointless.
Why exactly must that be done? You seem to be assuming something else that no one was discussing.
The provision of adequately funded childcare is critical, especially in countries where women are able to have long and successful careers, or they will naturally defer starting a family until they’re in a better financial position, giving them fewer fertile years and therefore fewer children.
Sure, what the world really needs is more children being raised by the lowest skilled, lowest paid members of the workforce.
Why exactly must that be done? You seem to be assuming something else that no one was discussing.
Jesus ****ing Christ.
I thought it would be completely obvious what I’m saying. Let’s try it again, last time.
In the modern world where women have gained access to education, financial independence, and reproductive autonomy, fertility rates have declined because women are finally able to make informed choices. That isn’t a problem to solve by limiting women’s progress. It’s the canary in the coal mine that societies need to evolve to support the realities of autonomous women.
Yes, studies show a correlation between education and fertility rates. I don’t debate that; it’s established fact. But the male interpretations I’m seeing here are as follows: Women's advancement "causes" fertility rates to decline, therefore women's empowerment is the problem. It’s reductionist and rooted in the patriarchal viewpoint that a woman’s primary role is reproduction.
I am telling you point blank that you’ve interpreted that data incorrectly. The correct interpretation is: Women are choosing not to have as many children because the current conditions make motherhood incompatible with the lives we want or deserve.
Women are actually people. We make rational decisions just like you. If women are not choosing motherhood, maybe the problem is not women, but rather the conditions of motherhood.
And what must be done?
Make motherhood more compatible with modern life for educated, working, autonomous women. And that doesn’t happen by further limiting women’s freedoms.
Jal made the most obvious suggestion regarding subsidized child care. If society values a higher fertility rate, then society needs to catch up and ****ing help.
Jesus ****ing Christ.I thought it would be completely obvious what I’m saying. Let’s try it again, last time.In the modern world where women have gained access to education, financial independence, and reproductive autonomy, fertility rates have declined because women are finally able to make informed choices. That isn’t a problem to solve by limiting women’s progress. It’s the
No one said or even implied that. Everyone near talking about rates of reproduction, not actual physical fertility.
Exactly how do you think I interpreted the data?
And again, I see no problem. And no one said there was any problem, although it is certainly possible that some view it as a problem. I think I that it's literally the best thing in human history that women are choosing to have fewer children.
And what must be done?
Make motherhood more compatible with modern life for educated, working, autonomous women. And that doesn’t happen by further limiting women’s freedoms.
Jal made the most obvious suggestion regarding subsidized child care. If society values a higher fertility rate, then society needs to catch up and ****ing help.
I sure hope this isn't done.
No one said or even implied that. Everyone near talking about rates of reproduction, not actual physical fertility. Exactly how do you think I interpreted the data?And again, I see no problem. And no one said there was any problem, although it is certainly possible that some view it as a problem. I think I that it's literally the best thing in human history that women are cho
I’ve edited the post to aid in your comprehension.
And the problem very clearly is what does it say about our current social structures that when presented with the choice women choose not to have children? That is the problem.
