Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]
I think the increased interest globally can be attributed to three things
1. Antisemitism
2. Islamophobia
3. Other International Tensions in the region
I think that in Dunyains case his heightened interest in the conflict can clearly be linked to number 2.
its the endless images of dead babies for about 90% of the world
It doesn’t matter if it’s a genocide… that’s arguing semantics.It matters that US foreign aid goes to supporting it. I don’t want the US supporting modern day colonialism, apartheid, ethnic cleansing, greater Israel etc..Just like I didn’t want war in Iraq over WMD or war in Iran w 2 weeks til nukes.I also don’t want politicians owned b
But again, there are millions of people throughout the world who will say the EXACT same things, without their government having any involvement at all. So the "govt involvement" angle just comes off as an insufficient explanation of what is going on.
I would say you, and millions like you, are being manipulated at the lizard brain psychological level to be so concerned about Israel's actions, and agnostic about the whole rest of the world. And US govt involvement isn't particularly cogent aspect of your interest.
There is a tremendous amount of tribal conflicts in the ME, with the US being involved at some level in most of them. But you aren't conditioned to care about the rest, so you dont.
Why is it so important to you that the Palestinians should have a state, but you are so indifferent about Kurds? The US is heavily involved in both cases. And what has been happening to the Kurds over decades (at the hands of Arab Muslims, facilitated by US military adventurism) is very similar to the Palestinian situation. But there is no propaganda machine manipulating you to care about Kurds or creation of a Kurdish state. So you are agnostic.
But again, there are millions of people throughout the world who will say the EXACT same things, without their government having any involvement at all. So the "govt involvement" angle just comes off as an insufficient explanation of what is going on. I would say you, and millions like you, are being manipulated at the lizard brain psychological level to be so concerned about
You make a good point I suppose…
But I would say that’s just a lack of knowledge about the other bad things going on in the world.
There are only so many hours in a day.
Just bc the Kurdish situation is similar and I’m unfamiliar with it doesn’t make your position right though.
I think you’re working on high level whataboutisms.
What’s your point?
So other atrocities are happening I only care about your genocide bc propaganda therefore let it happen?
Like what’s your end game?
How do you come out of this looking good in any way?
Also let’s just ignore the propaganda in the other direction that I’ve been exposed to my entire life when watching television or anything mainstream.
I think you’re just justifying war crimes with whataboutisms.
You can care about an atrocity for any reason or any mixture of reasons.
Anecdotally my Jewish ”friends” are some of the most racist people I’ve ever met. It isn’t just Islamophobia either it’s the hard r and basically looking down at everyone.
My Muslim friend has never said anything approaching that… he tells me how this entire issue has turned so many people against him. It’s kinda sad. Like being islamaphobic is just ok. It’s wild.
I’m just saying the most indefensible position is that US should somehow give aid to a country before helping itself.
On a side note I think Irish people are very anti Israel because a lot of them know first hand apartheid. So they have a soft spot for Palestinians.
I’ve noticed India is pretty pro Israel bc they hate Muslims that much. That was an easy sell.
I think it’s interesting to think about why we think or care about certain atrocities more than others.
Then why isn’t “doylebrunsonfan” banned for his ad hominem attacks…
Ftr I don’t think either should be banned just pointing out consistency.
Because Blue wasn’t banned for ad hominems, he was banned for wishing death and harm on other posters
I’m just saying the most indefensible position is that US should somehow give aid to a country before helping itself.
I would say this is an extremely naive, propaganda driven opinion. And shows you don’t know every much about this situation either.
If this was a legitimate concern you should be much more upset about the aid we give to other nations throughout the Middle East and Africa, we get absolutely nothing out of. At best.
Yemen is a giant barren desert that grows no food and has no economy to speak of filled with 60 million people, that only survive due to a constant inflow of US (and other western nations) aid. And in response they fire missiles at our ships. This seems pretty outrageous to me.
Unlike the aid going to countries in Africa and the ME, The relationship with Israel is very much a two way street where the US (or at least people making the decisions) see themselves as benefiting.
Israel contributes tremendously to our technology and military industrial complex. Which is 2 of the last sectors we dominate. Losing Israel as as ally would be extremely costly to US hegemony and a big blow to our economic empire.
Maybe you are an isolationist and don’t think we should even have an economic empire. And we should pass the torch to China and just focus on North America.
Which is a fine opinion. But if that is the case there are a lot of nations we can cut off aid to (such as Yemen) where we get pretty much nothing out of it, and reallocate it to home.
Yemen is a giant barren desert that grows no food and has no economy to speak of filled with 60 million people, that only survive due to a constant inflow of US (and other western nations) aid. And in response they fire missiles at our ships. This seems pretty outrageous to me.
the US blockaded Yemen for years, funded mercenaries, and helped the Saudis bomb the hell out of it killing millions. maybe there would be no need for aid if you guys would just **** off and leave them alone.
Because Blue wasn’t banned for ad hominems, he was banned for wishing death and harm on other posters
I think he was being more general so the threat isn’t as serious as when someone ad hom attacks someone it seems way more personalized.
I get that one thing is way more serious but we’re all anonymous posters so how serious of a threat is it really?
Also you have a slew of players in here all fine with actual genocide so shouldn’t they all be banned on that basis?
“Im blue” just came out and said what they’re all clearly fine with that’s my point. He might not have brains but he has balls and I got to give that to him.
Again not saying anyone should be banned I just think this becomes a slippery slope if everything is offensive and viewed as a threat.
Whereas attacking someone’s character actually is more personal on a forum.
What about US first international policy?
Personally it doesn’t sit right to have problems in the US and send a bunch of foreign aid to Israel to commit a genocide.
Or maybe that’s considered antisemitism?
Pokerethics in theory that could be linked to number 3 on my list but I have them ordered by popularity, and skepticism that America policy is the real reason rather than antisemitism is currently and historically justified. So criticisms like yours need to acknowledge and take that into account. In my opinion you are trying and failing a bit here.
Pokerethics in theory that could be linked to number 3 on my list but I have them ordered by popularity, and skepticism that America policy is the real reason rather than antisemitism is currently and historically justified. So criticisms like yours need to acknowledge and take that into account. In my opinion you are trying and failing a bit here.
When you take into account the Havaara agreement and the balfour declaration..
You simply can’t write a letter to your friend giving away someone else’s land.
The Nakba doesn’t also sit right.
The us foreign policy argument is just the most cogent of arguments imo. The other ones get into a lot of he said she said.
I could write a short novel on reasons to not have to fall for false paradigms.
Then it sounds like your whole "they haven't killed enough people for this to be called a genocide" augment was bad-faith bullshit right from the start.
That’s not what I said though. I was talking about Nazi style tactics. Nazis existed before the conventions on genocide that are widely accepted by international law is accepted anyway, but even if they hadn’t, Israel not employing Nazi-style tactics is overdetermined by the evidence.
Try a little harder to track a conversation. 😀
I think he was being more general so the threat isn’t as serious as when someone ad hom attacks someone it seems way more personalized.I get that one thing is way more serious but we’re all anonymous posters so how serious of a threat is it really?Also you have a slew of players in here all fine with actual genocide so shouldn’t they all be banned on that basis?“Im blue” just c
Who is that exactly? There are a few posters arguing against the use of the word genocide but I haven’t seen any advocate for genocide.
That’s not what I said though. I was talking about Nazi style tactics. Nazis existed before the conventions on genocide that are widely accepted by international law is accepted anyway, but even if they hadn’t, Israel not employing Nazi-style tactics is overdetermined by the evidence.
Try a little harder to track a conversation. 😀
What you actually said was
That’s not what happened, but ok. If they were copying the Nazis much much worse would have happened, not them going from a rather small group to 15 million Palestinians.
so now I'm asking you to elaborate on what you mean by "much worse would have happened." How bad would things have to get before you'd call this a genocide? Half a million dead? A million? All of 'em?
Also, what "Nazi-style" tactics would need to be employed for this to be a genocide?
IDF killed 20 women and 46 children yesterday, FWIW.
Interesting how you quote what I said, and it’s what I said I said. The answer to that question is irrelevant, as was already stated. Please re-read and try to follow what I’m saying instead of asking me unrelated questions.
The point of how many Palestinians there are in the world is that the Nazis invaded other countries and started liquidating their Jewish populations down to as low as 10% or even 0% for some locations. They used mass shootings where they would line everyone up in a line and shoot them all individually, killing tens of thousands of people from a village at a time. This isn’t even close to what the IDF is doing.
I don’t take those reports seriously (assuming you are interpreting them correctly) because they come from Hamas anyway, but even if I did they have nothing to do with what we’re talking about here.
The point of how many Palestinians there are in the world is that the Nazis invaded other countries and started liquidating their Jewish populations down to as low as 10% or even 0% for some locations.
So killing 90% of the population is your standard?
Who is that exactly? There are a few posters arguing against the use of the word genocide but I haven’t seen any advocate for genocide.
Well it would be nice for the pro Israel side to denounce genocide so we know we’re all in agreement but I’m pretty sure they’re at a minimum genocide deniers.
So the workaround is to deny it’s even happening I guess is where we are at.
This is wild. Google and Amazon have a secret signaling system to warn Israel if court orders have been issued to reveal its data.
[URL="https://www.972mag.com/project-nimbus-contract-google-amazon-israel/"]‘No restrictions’ and a secret ‘wink’: Inside Israel’s deal with Google, Amazon
To secure the lucrative Project Nimbus contract, the tech giants agreed to disregard their own terms of service and sidestep legal orders by tipping Israel off if a foreign court demands its data, a joint investigation reveals.[/URL]
I don't usually post here because I just don't know enough about it all, but is this right? They had a cease fire, then Israel tossed a bunch of air strikes, killing a bunch of people, and now the Israeli army says "ok, the ceasefire is on again." Really?
just a total joke of a country
the video is even funnier https://www.instagram.com/reels/DQXsDUpC...
I don't usually post here because I just don't know enough about it all, but is this right? They had a cease fire, then Israel tossed a bunch of air strikes, killing a bunch of people, and now the Israeli army says "ok, the ceasefire is on again." Really?
I don't usually post here because I just don't know enough about it all, but is this right? They had a cease fire, then Israel tossed a bunch of air strikes, killing a bunch of people, and now the Israeli army says "ok, the ceasefire is on again." Really?
Well, Israel has been violating the ceasefire everyday.
.
Also,
shows that since the "ceasefire" began, on only three of fifteen days did Israel not kill people in Gaza. Add to that the near-daily murders on the West Bank.
