ClubWPTGold - RNG discussion
I should be up a lot. The games do seem incredible. Thats why it feels off to not be up a lot after a decent amount of hands. Certainly enough to know my edge should be very significant.
There is only so many times random hands can flop the nuts in 4 bet pots before any reasonable person should start questioning what is going on. They aren't even trying to advertise themselves as a legitimate poker site because legitimate poker sites aren't generally allowed....
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Edit/MH: This and the next fifty or so posts have been moved to this dedicated thread from https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/292/o...
Please post your comments about the RNG, preferably with some appropriate evidence, here.
Thank you.
The only time I have thought something was up with the RNG in 20 years of playing online poker was after I had been playing on Ignition for a while and then it came out shortly after there were bot rings capable of sharing hole cardsI also know what it feels like to have a massive edge (10bb+) playing on Global, and I also know what it feels like to play hundreds of thousands o
yeah, this summarized how I feel quite well. we don't have a way to get evidence, and without evidence there's not much left to say except be warned and be wary.
Rigging RNG seems like a wasted effort in today’s landscape of big data, AI solutions and GTO solvers. Just my opinion. My skepticism has nothing to do with RNG.
Well looks like I’m in the wrong place now.
Rigging RNG seems like a wasted effort in today’s landscape of big data, AI solutions and GTO solvers. Just my opinion. My skepticism has nothing to do with RNG.
Well looks like I’m in the wrong place now.
What is your skepticism?
I think most will agree there's bots and collusion because lets be real, it's online poker and there is always bots and collusion.
Hey Mike Haven,
How do you propose someone posts "appropriate evidence"?
Do you have a way to collect hand histories?
No?
Oh, okay.
Since the conversation was broken out into a new thread I will address the current largest pushbacks:
1. Where is your evidence
1a. How?
2. Rigging the RNG is dumb for the operator
2a. Something feeling off about the RNG doesn't have to culminate in the RNG being rigged. In fact, I don't know that there has ever been a case where the RNG came back rigged. Plenty of cases where that off feeling lead to something else though
3. Why would WPT ruin their reputation?
3a. Assuming they know there is something amiss? Its not WPT anymore. WPT sold to China a year ago. They have WPT Global already. Club WPT Gold is something completely different.
Anyways, not sure why this would need its own thread. Not sure why its controversial to mention that something feels off. Clearly its a common thought. I wouldn't have made this comment at all if a thread hadn't been broken out.
The bolded part is it. People are used to tight 6max games, and gold is 8max with antes and straddles. Its a completely different beast and it seems like people are not used to it. The only thing people have behind their arguments are "vibes". It's moronic and annoying, and ruins this thread that can have useful discussion, and derails it with ZOMG THE RNG based on nothing but
Your comment implies that the games are juicy and would allow for large winrates and I agree but the rest of your comment seems contradictory to the original point
What is your skepticism?
I think most will agree there's bots and collusion because lets be real, it's online poker and there is always bots and collusion.
I’m skeptical about the ethical use of AI solutions and mass data analysis to curate player experiences. Behavior profiles have been in use for a long time to combat cheating but now companies can use similar metrics to determine stats like Customer Life Time Value. They can calculate estimates of how much each player will contribute to the ecosystem. They have sole access to every hand you’ve played on the site. Im sure you can think of some ways this information could be used against players without needing to rig RNG at all. I think a lot of players erroneously assume sites have an incentive to juice pots for max rake, but their actual goal is to maintain a stable, raked environment for as long as possible.
I also just automatically wary of anything that seems too good to be true and that’s been this site for a year now. Some of the plays I’ve seen combined with the massive amount of players feels off to me. I don’t believe vlog watchers can fully explain the amount of traffic.
Ok? I’m not a lawyer and I’m not here to argue semantics. What is your point? If you’re playing poker in America in 42 of the 50 states you’re playing unregulated poker. Is clubwptgold jumping through all these hoops for the fun of it?
He's saying that any online poker site has to be defined as an unlawful gambling site, in legal terms, for the UIGEA to be applicable to them
Poker is not gambling depending on its legal definition
Point being the highlighted part of the screenshot you posted isn't accurate
Hey Mike Haven,
How do you propose someone posts "appropriate evidence"?
Do you have a way to collect hand histories?
No?
Oh, okay.
If there is no way to record or collect HHs, even one at a time, then all of this discussion is just based on the "feelings" of a relatively very low percentage of their players? Should I move it to the "Riggies' thread" until someone finds a way to give any type of hard evidence? Surely almost everyone would prefer that accusations and allegations are backed up with some sort of documentary proof?
Since the conversation was broken out into a new thread I will address the current largest pushbacks:1. Where is your evidence1a. How?2. Rigging the RNG is dumb for the operator2a. Something feeling off about the RNG doesn't have to culminate in the RNG being rigged. In fact, I don't know that there has ever been a case where the RNG came back rigged. Plenty of cases where th
I noticed that your post seemed to spark off the following 50 posts over a few days; now all being in this dedicated thread. I looked back and there was no other post for at least two weeks that would have been as reasonable, suitable or relevant as the new thread's OP.
By creating the new thread, it helps those who want to discuss the important topic of a possible RNG issue, without interrupting those who want to discuss other site benefits and problems issues, for which the poker site threads are mainly used.
Almost everything humans touch becomes corrupted by greed and money. But for some reason poker players think that poker site operators are more virtuous than the Pope. I’ll never understand lol.It’s not like the developers would be making code alterations to single out a certain player.Systems that force the majority of a player base to sit around a 50% winrate are standard i
Ecclesiastes 7 29
"God made man upright,but man has gone in search of many schemes"
Yea, it’s fine guys. We should stop this pointless debate. 8 handed plus a bunch of recs playing a bunch of hands equate to tons of mw spots which in return just naturally leads to a ton of variance. I’m more suspicious on how the hell do they get so many whales on the site. Who tf is BronnyDog 5b jamming pre with K432r? Where do they find these ppl lmao.
In my experience, NLH RNG is rigged but PLO is fair. Or maybe NLH games are just tougher and I’m worse at it 😃
Yea, it’s fine guys. We should stop this pointless debate. 8 handed plus a bunch of recs playing a bunch of hands equate to tons of mw spots which in return just naturally leads to a ton of variance. I’m more suspicious on how the hell do they get so many whales on the site. Who tf is BronnyDog 5b jamming pre with K432r? Where do they find these ppl lmao.
Used to ask this all the time during the pandemic app club days. Put some marketing dollars towards it and I guess there are more of them out there than you would think
Any winning MTT regs in here? Have you noticed that you consistently play with the same players constantly? 1500 player pools and I see the same people every tournament, like an absurd amount, almost as if they're pairing up winning players. In 2024 WPT Global president said "It's very common for new players to have a bad experience," said Scott. "And when they do they don't come back and they're gone. They're taking their dollars elsewhere. So we use AI to ensure a balanced skill mix at the tables."
On top of that the amount of times I've gone from the BB to the SB to the BTN to immediately get a table change and moved to UTG is ridiculous. Like I get it could happen, I mean it shouldn't but fine **** happens but it is so constant it's incredible.
On top of that the amount of times I've gone from the BB to the SB to the BTN to immediately get a table change and moved to UTG is ridiculous. Like I get it could happen, I mean it shouldn't but fine **** happens but it is so constant it's incredible.
I'm cash not but the a few montsh ago I was only play MMT and this made me leave their site.
Table Jump...wait 2 hands to play in a turbo tourney. Play one hand from the button...table jump...now I'm UTG. Play until button...table jump. Now I'm HJ.
Just insane and must be AI coding. There is no way a human coded that system and looked at what was happening and said...this seems fair. and normal They are not even consolidating people from "high number" tables to the lower, longer lasting tables. They just shift everyone around. Its like some bizarre zoom/spin thing but they never say it.
Ya it's so frustrating especially in a turbo PKO, nothing like going from 12bb to 8bb in less than an orbit without playing a hand.
I just put a one outer on a guy for a 6K pot.
Wow!
So lucky
That helps out quite a bit actually
Any winning MTT regs in here? Have you noticed that you consistently play with the same players constantly? 1500 player pools and I see the same people every tournament, like an absurd amount, almost as if they're pairing up winning players. In 2024 WPT Global president said "It's very common for new players to have a bad experience," said Scott. "And when they do they don't co
I think that is a natural phenomenon as the stronger players consistently go deeper than losing players. So you and other winning players will end up facing each other a disproportionate amount of the time.
However, I am worried about the use of AI to create a “fair and equitable” playing field for all players.
As far as I can tell, Alex Scott no longer works for WPT and WPT was bought by a private equity firm sometime in 2021. There’s basically no available information on the firm Element Partners, LLC. Personally, when I hear private equity I just assume they’ve thrown all ethical and moral qualms out the window in favor of chasing immediate profits.
My baseless hunch is they’re interested in implementing a system that benefit the overall health of the ecosystem by flattening win and loss rates. Possibly by using data driven player profiles.
If there is no way to record or collect HHs, even one at a time, then all of this discussion is just based on the "feelings" of a relatively very low percentage of their players? Should I move it to the "Riggies' thread" until someone finds a way to give any type of hard evidence? Surely almost everyone would prefer that accusations and allegations are backed up with some sort
Surely you have some proof that everything is on the up and up? Something from the gaming commission? Some independent audit results? A perfect record of well trusted sites like Full Tilt, UB, Absolute, Bovada, etc. operating with flawless records?
The "don't talk about it until you have proof" line is so unrelentingly trite.
hows the rng here? i heard if you blow on the screen before the river comes out you always win
I saw a guy on Twitter who’s won 23k in bounties in the 100k mb since the new year. He’s must be blowing something
