In other news
In the current news climate we see that some figures and events tend to dominate the front-pages heavily. Still, there a
IDF trained ICE mass murderers will shoot you in the face, torture you to death at alligator alcatraz, and traffic your children. Liberals will do **** like this and tell you to vote for the party that drastically expanded ICE
Spoiler
nuance tho
I love that the drummer is still wearing a mask.
Do you ever see cars sideways on the road when they are icy? Can you think of other reasons a car might be sideways on the road?
Was she blocking the road when cars are visibly driving past her in the video?
maybe infront of a house with an illegal? without seeing a 10 min video of the entire events we can't be too certain but it certainly does not look good for her and to think otherwise is pure delusion.
Humpty dumpty might be in a nearby house too. I haven't seen nearly enough evidence to convince me that she was obstructing ICE in any way. I've seen evidence that is contrary to that, though.
I could be convinced, but I've watched a lot of stuff and read a lot of articles. Not convinced yet.
I've heard claims that she was obstructing. I've heard claims that she was dropping someone off and trying to turn around afterwards. I've heard lots of claims.
I have no idea why she was there, though. I'm skeptical of EVERYONE that claims to know without them showing me evidence.
I would be asking for the same evidence to back claims of "she lives in the neighborhood" (haven't seen any evidence for that), or "she was dropping her wife off and then trying to leave" (haven't seen evidence for that either).
I am not too well educated in the subject but I assumed they have full police authority but are not allowed to seek them outside of enforcing immigration.
federal immigration agents cannot conduct stops based solely on traffic violations. BUT IF THERES A CAR BLOCKING THEIR PATH THEY HAVE THE RIGHT TO ENFORCE THE LAW
Apparently i know more about it then gorgonian tho because I been researching it the last 4 minutes and my assumptions appear to be right. Its almost like its common sense that you can't block and disrupt law enforcement
shes sideways on the road? blocking the road? maybe infront of a house with an illegal? without seeing a 10 min video of the entire events we can't be too certain but it certainly does not look good for her and to think otherwise is pure delusion.btw I ment I'm anti illegal immigration not legal immigration and I was pro all migration most of my life. but I mean you would have
I see where your confusion is reading other posts. If ICE is being intentionally blocked by a vehicle, they obviously have the power to do what it takes to stop them from impeding their policing powers. That doesn’t mean they can arrest them for traffic violations, it would be an arrest for obstruction or some other statute like that. Contrast this with Highway Patrol or local law enforcement that can conduct stops based solely on a traffic violation. So no, they wouldn’t be enforcing traffic laws, and it’s not some semantic distinction.
The point is that if they are able to conduct their investigation and police powers despite her haranguing them from a car, they should do that. You can’t make someone obstruct you by getting closer to them and fighting them.
You are free to call it wordplay, but it has been amply demonstrated to be relevant to the conversation.So, what is the evidence that she was obstructing their actions? Was she waving cars past her in any of the videos? Can she be considered to be obstructing if she is not only not stopping them, but encouraging them to proceed?These are important questions to answer to establi
the waving thing. hum I saw her wave a single car and this is after law enforcement has seemingly already surrounded her. Im no lawyer but I imagine if I were I could try to argue just the simple act of blocking the road is obstruction. im sure we will see longer videos released of the events before
Right, sounds like a traffic violation.
maybe infront of a house with an illegal? without seeing a 10 min video of the entire events we can't be too certain but it certainly does not look good for her and to think otherwise is pure delusion.
Oh so the possibility that she could have been blocking is enough to say that she was blocking? Well I actually have a defeater for that, which is that the events were going on for several minutes before they approached her. If it wasn’t enough to obstruct them for several minutes, why would we think that they were approaching her to stop her from obstructing them?
the waving thing. hum I saw her wave a single car and this is after law enforcement has seemingly already surrounded her. Im no lawyer but I imagine if I were I could try to argue just the simple act of blocking the road is obstruction. im sure we will see longer videos released of the events before
So you have no evidence to present that she is obstructing them in any way? The evidence that she is not doesn't count because reasons? And reminder that if cars are going past, she isn't blocking the road.
This isn't a very compelling case, so far.
I see where your confusion is reading other posts. If ICE is being intentionally blocked by a vehicle, they obviously have the power to do what it takes to stop them from impeding their policing powers. That doesn’t mean they can arrest them for traffic violations, it would be an arrest for obstruction or some other statute like that. Contrast this with Highway Patrol or
But they didn't arrest her for a traffic ticket we know this because we see them rush the door and attempt to arrest her thats not how you give a traffic ticket.
I think your argument here is she is not completely blocking the road currently during the shooting of the videos? am i correct? But what if she was completely blocking the road 10 seconds before the video started? Thats still grounds for an arrest 30 seconds later. We don't have enough information based on visual but human interaction suggests more happened
Either or I think your expecting way too high standards of law in real time. Its really up to the cops interpretation they will get punished after the fact after too many bad interpretations but if your told to get out of the car just do it.....
Either or I think your expecting way too high standards of law in real time. Its really up to the cops interpretation they will get punished after the fact after too many bad interpretations but if your told to get out of the car just do it.....
Probable cause must be established in real time, prior to many potential actions. It is not a good argument that probable cause was too difficult to obtain. It is, in fact, a losing argument in court.
So you have no evidence to present that she is obstructing them in any way? The evidence that she is not doesn't count because reasons?
This isn't a very compelling case, so far.
She's clearly obstructing some amount but how much is up for interpretation which is what were doing.
I think we have different trains of thought here. your treating this like a court of law where she's innocent until proven guilty. I can't imagine that's how real time law enforcement works and ultimately even if ice did make a mistake trying to arrest her. That mistake is not comparable to the two mistakes made by the shooter and the driver. The more I think about it why are we even arguing this :p The arrest officer and shooter were different people. the arrest officer even if he made a mistake wont even be punished I doubt its suspension worthy even with national attention. The arrest part is actually a separate minor incident followed by a felony/misdemeanor? of ignoring police followed by questionable decisions of driving towards a police officer and fireing at all or definitely 2 extra shots. I think he had the right for the 1st shot from what I seen but I think it was still a very poor choice
That being said I think all signs point to obstruction and we will see that when the body cams are released.
She's clearly obstructing some amount but how much is up for interpretation which is what were doing.
No. Not at all.
I think we have different trains of thought here. your treating this like a court of law where she's innocent until proven guilty.
Yes. We should all be holding ALL law enforcement to this standard. Why don't you want to?
All law enforcement is in real time and governed by the laws we are discussing.
and ultimately even if ice did make a mistake trying to arrest her. That mistake is not comparable to the two mistakes made by the shooter and the driver.
But it is. It's a symptom of the systemic overreach of this administration. It's what LEADS TO the confrontation that killed her.
That being said I think all signs point to obstruction and we will see that when the body cams are released.
I've seen no signs that point to obstruction.
Your just asking for the impossible I have a 20 second video from 7 different angels. I don't believe what your asking for can be proven or disproven with the information available because clearly this was an ongoing situation longer then 20 seconds . I see obstruction you don't see obstruction all we really got is vibes. That's probably why this is so controversial.
Your high expectation of law enforcement reminds me of the beauty contest 2/3 game theory tho if your into that kind of stuff where game theory suggests the answer is zero (perfect) but we are not actually guessing for the perfect outcome. we want it but we realize the people playing the game are not perfect people and will not think at a perfect level. kind of like the errors of liberalism. We want it to be perfect and it would work. but all the cogs along the way malfunction and we have to aim for the middle ground.
edit lmao i just turned on popular liberal streamer destiny and hes literally covering this exact micro topic within 10 seconds of watching him life is a simulation. it ah sounded good for my side but I wont get into it anymore
The poet and her wife didn't exactly sneak up on the ICE ICE BABY agents. ICE ICE saw them and interacted with them before the shooting. Poet and wife also not the most fearsome protestors. Short of the poet pulling out a gun and/or trying to mow one of them down with her car (I guess this part is MAYBE debatable but come on......) she should be alive today instead of dead from a bullet (maybe multiple) to the face.
Instead, the wife is planning a funeral.
Saying "**** around and find out" is disgusting. Right up there with people celebrating Kirk's murder.
It seems the don't tread on me crowd don't really mind the treading, it's the me part they object to.
No ones celebrating it... "fafo" just means she's at fault too. just because someone else is partly or fully responsible does not mean I have to feel bad for her this was easily avoidable by her. Probably over 100 people die crossing the road everyday with some help of bad drivers. do you expect me to have a vigil for everyone of the 100 of the 10 billion who die in a similar situation everyday. Its just all politics people see themselves in her. Btw a new video was release sometime today showing her sitting in the middle of the road and honking for over 4 minutes and she was already there at the start of the video. heros in Iran dying protesting atm someone had to be the first in iran. maybe she will be the first in the states but I doubt it
Y I see obstruction you don't see obstruction all we really got is vibes. That's probably why this is so controversial.
And law enforcement requires more than just vibes before they can act. If it can't be provided by 7 different angles of video, multiple eyewitnesses at the scene, and an entire administration hell bent on justifying this, does that raise any questions in your mind?
These are not MY expectations of law enforcement, and frankly, I'm horrified that you don't understand that these are THE expectations for law enforcement.
I donno where you got that idea cops are just the bully's from school I would never drive away from one of those power hungry fellows. They are mostly just normal jocks more liberal dreams I once had
What idea?
The poet and her wife didn't exactly sneak up on the ICE ICE BABY agents. ICE ICE saw them and interacted with them before the shooting. Poet and wife also not the most fearsome protestors. Short of the poet pulling out a gun and/or trying to mow one of them down with her car (I guess this part is MAYBE debatable but come on......) she should be alive today instead of dead f
Good post.
what are you smoking she was sideways on the road. that ILLEGAL
If some drunk idiot in Calgary was blocking the road would you not want the cops to move and arrest him? they walked up to her to move her its in the freakin video. you can't be this dense
Are you so dumb that you believe ICE agents are empowered to make traffic arrests or DUI? Just looooooooooooool.
After being corrected 20 times he insists on his ******ed belief that ICE has the lawful authority to enforce traffic violations. It’s because he googled for four minutes, not because of confirmation bias, ok!
Sadly, yes. I can confirm. There are plenty celebrating. Dancing on the grave, even.
After being corrected 20 times he insists on his ******ed belief that ICE has the lawful authority to enforce traffic violations. It’s because he googled for four minutes, not because of confirmation bias, ok!
It looks to me like they absolutely have the authority to enforce traffic violations regardless of whatever the laws say. In fact they can shoot people for traffic violations.
IDF trained ICE mass murderers will shoot you in the face, torture you to death at alligator alcatraz, and traffic your children. Liberals will do **** like this and tell you to vote for the party that drastically expanded ICE
Spoiler
nuance tho
It probably wont move the needle but you've got millions of fox news right wingers in red states anticipating and hoping that Trump lights a match so they can watch a blue city burn itself down and turn it red on the map.
A bunch of liberals dancing around in dinosaur costumers is going to piss them off a lot more.
Is there any factual basis for claiming the IDF trains ICE agents? Looking for a legitimate source.
