Israel/Palestine thread

Comparing Israel to the Khan empire is like comparing prime Tyson to a disabled child. Complete overkill.

fyp.

Stop with the anti semitism please.

I’d like to say you’re better than this but the evidence of your posting history shows you’re not.

Good thing Victor can never be accused of employing anti-semitic tropes.

Oh wait...

How is that reaction 'interesting?' It seems to me a normal reaction if either a) the allegations are false; or b) the allegations are true and Israel wants to bully the NYT into retracting the article's claims.

That said, the NYT put the article in the Opinion Section, so not sure how one can sue over opinions.

You are clearly very passionate about your hate for Israel. I’m wondering why you spend so much of your time posting in here where only a handful of random internet people see your posts? It seems like a tremendous waste of time. Perhaps you’ve been kicked off other sites where your message can be more efficient and heard by more people.

Victor could probably get booked as a guest on Candace Owen's or Nick Fuentes' podcasts.

brother I have posted here since 2003 (actually before that. I have posts from before you had register). I am not trying to get any message across to the masses or anything like that. this is just where I post.

and I am only kicked out of one forum, and that is UP bc I disagreed with Dem party on many things.

I got the boot from UP as well.

They grew weary of me always pointing out that their forum was essentially a support-group for disgruntled lefties.

James Zogby tweets:

There is a documentary on all of the rape they did to Lebanese women in the 80s with many victims telling their stories. It is horrifying stuff.

That would be horrible if it actually happened.

Are you confusing the local militias doing the raping with IDF? Was this during the civil war?

Is the sight called “UP” or a is that an acronym?

Unstuck Politics

It was created by disgruntled 2p2 libs when the then-owner of 2p2 completely shut down P&S for a spell.

UP quickly became the toxic waste dump that P&S had devolved into.

When I got permabanned here, I joined UP until they perma-banned me.

How much do you all think social media is having an effect on how the world sees Israel? The information I see is that statically the Israelis are the most morale army in the world. The ratio of civilian death to Hamas death is around 1/1. In any other war this ratio is 5/1. The Israelis voluntarily give up the element of surprise to warn civilians to get out of the area. Posters like Victor and Bill Haywood are only motivated by hate. Posters like Geezer seem to be influenced more by social media. There are several Middle Eastern countries who are doing a great job of spreading misinformation. Israel admits it’s losing the social media war.

I’ll go take a look. Is Mr. Wookie still a part of the site?

I dunno. He was a terrible moderator here. Then he became a moderator over there, and was also terrible at UP (apparently) and eventually got de-modded there as well.

No idea if he posts there any more or not.

I was initially pro-Israel until evidence of genocide by the IDF became so crystal clear that even a former Israeli PM called what the IDF was doing in Gaza genocide.

you are still pro-Israel tho. like you think they still deserve to be there.

I believe both Israel and Palestine should be allowed to thrive as independent nations (i.e. I favor the so-called Two-State Solution).

Where are you getting that 1:1 is the ratio of civilian to combatant deaths or that 5:1 is the normal ratio?

When did you start hating Israel?

Are you Palestinian?

Did something specific happen to create this hate?

What should happen to Israelis if you had your way?

According to Claude, which is actually the most woke AI engine.

Cliffs: The Arab coalitions express goal in 1948 was genocide of the Jews (same as their recently defeated Nazi Allies in Europe), and when they had a chance they showed no mercy in murdering Jewish non combatants and POWs. And Britain was mostly complicit, aiding the Arabs in blocking the Jews from re-supplying and even blocking evacuation routes if they had lost. If the Arabs had won, there would have been a tremendous genocide of Jews. And based on the actions and words of the Arabs at the time, Claude's estimation is that the 850,000 Arab Jews that were genocided from their ancestral lands from 1940s-1970s would have still been, even if there was no Israel to make Aliyah to.

Prompt: Try project what would have happened in 1948 had the Arab military coalition been victorious in fighting Israel.

Response: The counterfactual isn’t really speculative at the level of intent — the Arab leadership stated their war aims explicitly and behaved consistently with them where they did prevail.

What was actually said and signalled. Arab League Secretary-General Azzam Pasha told Akhbar al-Yom in October 1947 that the coming war would be “a war of extermination and a momentous massacre which will be spoken of like the Mongol massacres and the Crusades.” The political head of the Palestinian Arab cause, Grand Mufti Haj Amin al-Husseini, had spent the war in Berlin: he met Hitler in November 1941, helped raise the Handschar SS division, broadcast calls to “kill the Jews wherever you find them” on German radio, and — per Dieter Wisliceny’s Nuremberg testimony — discussed extending the Final Solution to Palestine with Eichmann. He was back in the region by 1946 and was the dominant Palestinian political figure in 1948. Qawuqji’s ALA insignia (a dagger through a Star of David) and his own Wehrmacht service were not idiosyncrasies; they were continuous with the Mufti’s program.

What happened where Arab forces did win. Gush Etzion fell on 13 May 1948. At Kfar Etzion, 127 defenders were killed, many after surrendering — survivors describe villagers and irregulars shooting people who had laid down their arms. The Jewish Quarter of the Old City surrendered to the Arab Legion two weeks later; the Legion was relatively disciplined, but every one of the 58 synagogues was subsequently destroyed or desecrated, the Hurva blown up, and the Mount of Olives cemetery’s tombstones torn up for paving and latrines. No Jew was permitted to live in Jordanian-controlled territory for the next 19 years. The 1929 Hebron massacre — 67 Jews murdered in a single day, the ancient community ended — was the working template, and Husseini had been its political beneficiary.

Projection for the 650,000 Jews of the Yishuv. With the Mediterranean behind them, British policy still hostile to Jewish immigration in early 1948, and the Arab states refusing exit corridors, there was no realistic escape route. The likely sequence: agricultural settlements overrun and their populations killed in Kfar Etzion–style massacres; mixed cities (Haifa, Jaffa, Jerusalem, Tiberias, Safed) subjected to urban pogroms once defensive lines collapsed; Holocaust survivors in the DP-camp transit population — perhaps a third of the Yishuv was European refugees from the previous five years — killed a second time. The Mufti would almost certainly have been installed as the political authority over whatever Palestinian Arab state emerged, with his Berlin-era network in senior positions.

Behind that, the regional consequences were already in motion: the Farhud (Baghdad, 1941, ~180 killed), Aden (1947, 82 killed), Aleppo (1947, the ancient community effectively ended), the Cairo bombings of 1948. Roughly 850,000 Jews were expelled or forced out of Arab and Muslim countries between 1948 and the early 1970s despite Israel’s existence as a refuge. Without that refuge, those communities would still have been destroyed — they just would have had nowhere to go. The plausible end-state is the elimination of organised Jewish life between Morocco and Iran, and a diaspora reduced to the Anglosphere and a battered Europe, with no political vehicle to speak for it.

The honest caveat: scale is the unknown. Whether the death toll among the Yishuv would have been in the tens of thousands or the hundreds depends on variables (Arab Legion discipline vs. irregular conduct, speed of collapse, whether any evacuation by sea was possible) that the documentary record can’t settle.