Climate Change - increasingly horrible disasters loom

Natives (as almost all human societies did, except a few in world history including ours) raped and murdered much more than the worst western societies ever did.

I hope we never go to their level

Well, look at how the Aztecs behaved, no wonders most other peoples helped the spanish one way or another while they were being subjugated.

But people adapt to how things are done in their societies, like, this is how we always did things and they are just fine. Another example is when slavery was a thing. You're just judging the natives with an 21st century westerner eye.

Most people are followers and conformists, they will do, think and behave the way their peers and society as a whole say is acceptable. Without knowing you and thinking only in probabilities, I have no reason to think you would be any different. So, if you were born as a native, most likely you would also be doing all those things you seem to imply as being bad.

I don't exist without my specific parents, from a specific area and culture and specific ancestors.

There is no me that could have been born elsewhere in time or geography.

And btw even in your model (which makes no sense at all) I am a libertarian in a country where not even 3% of people are

I disagree, plenty of people try to imagine how they would act if they were born in, let's say, Nazi Germany, as a way to imagine what they would do if similar conditions came back one day. And the whole concept of empathy. So yes, even though those things are only an exercise in imagination and I never literally implied that it was possible for you to be born again as a native, they definitely make sense in some circunstances as an exercise. But ok, fair enough.

And no society as a whole will ever drastically change to a primitive level, especially not by choice, so saying things like "The indigenous peoples of North America seemed to have it pretty damned good. Their way of life was to conserve nature, not waste it.", as the other guy did, is completely irrelevant.

I could just show a picture of 60 million human skulls the Bolsheviks murdered. The modern left are the Bolsheviks of the present day in worldview and ideology. They would be the biggest climate change alarmists while at the same time being one of the most murderous regimes in history. Climate alarmists are purely virtue signalers. "Save the world" & "our children's future" are just buzzwords they spew so they can implement power over people they don't agree with.

you can try to imagine a lot of things, doesn't mean it makes sense to.

there is no "you" outside of the exact chain of events that made you, you. there is no soul, no "inner you", no "intrinsic you" that can happen to be in Nazi Germany 80 years ago or in a native tribe 2 centuries ago or anywhere else.

it's a made up intellectual masturbation which the left invented to hijack empathy. "what if you were completely different and on the losing side of history/culture/class, what then?" well then it wouldn't be me is the only answer.

no "well then IF it was me I'd like to x to happen so I should ask for x even if it isn't me in that spot" lol.

Rawls was a Marxist btw.

what's moral is what benefits you, your family, your group. that's it. "what if I was in another family or group?" then what's moral would change ffs.

trying to win the game of life what is moral

Another hour, another lie.

modern liberalism has incorporated a **** ton of Marxism yes.

You're subtly putting words in my "mouth" as if that's what I was talking about. E.g. moral. I never used that word nor it is a preoccupation of mine at all. Saying things like "what's moral is what benefits you, your family, your group. that's it. "what if I was in another family or group?" then what's moral would change ffs. " is just a way of trying to justify this view so you don't feel bad about yourself because others could potentially judge you. Instead of just doing it without thinking about anything else and if anyone is unhappy, then they can go **** themselves.

So again, I was not talking about morals, and I was not talking about religious crap, reincarnation etc. I was talking about a time like that coming back and how to not be influenced by the prevailing consensus. I'm pretty sure that worrying about any type of morals is not the way to navigate those waters, but how could you know, you don't think about any of this.

Even if that was true, incorporating some Marxism into a capitalist framework doesn't make anyone a "Marxist". Stop lying.

Others will always judge me regardless, and they will do that for their own advantage (or at least, attempting to gain something by doing it), same as we all do what we do.

As for the bold, we have already been under some pretty insane attempt to force consensus violently. Very recently. A few years ago you got banned here (and in social media and so on) by disagreeing with the insane consensus about what was the proper response to the existence of COVID.

It just happened. And we saw who were the people capable of disregarding the violent pressure based upon lies, and who the sheep willing to support violating unalienable rights of citizens just because someone atop the hierarchy told them so. It *just happened*

Maybe you don't feel like that because you are american (just guessing here). Because in the USA it happened lightly. But in my country they put armed soldiers patroling the streets arresting citizens. And significant majorities of the population agreed.

So, if we were to go back to a situation where unlimited violence get sanctioned by powerful people in society, i won't spend a gram of energy doing anything else than just trying to find a way to benefit as much as possible from it for myself, my family, and my relatives. Because the vast majority of people (at least in my country) don't deserve my help, having proven to be my enemies.

You brought the perfect example, COVID. Can't really dispute anything you said, given what happened in lots of places at that time. The censorship still in place etc etc

People aren't starving now?

Hint: they're not starving now because of a shortage of food.

Famine is part of nature, it's a mechanism that controls population pretty well over the long run.

So are we supposed to starve or are we not?

Sounds like you support the native lifestyle as it allows nature to run its course and starve us so the population is kept in check?

And Luciom and the likes have the gallstones to accuse me off mental masturbation.

hey... look at that, a chart of the industrial revolution.
no one would have ever thought that oil production and usage would spike there.

We seem to be the only species saturating our air, water, and soil with toxins. Doesn't seem natural. Maybe we're doing something wrong.

But nah, it's gotta be some evil, leftist conspiracy to conserve the spaceship we're flying around the cosmos on.

No, I don't. Thinking about we, 8B people, going back to the native lifestyle is just ridiculous. We will all kill each other before that happens.

No idea if we are supposed to starve, but I don't think people would voluntarily choose starvation if it was a way to "save" the planet.

It usually ends up in war .
Many are delusional thinking they will be shielded by it .

lol there are plants that make their enviroment EXTREMELY toxic , like rosemary. Maybe you should learn how cruel and without any "empathy" real life is

Killing each other seems like population control and that's natural, no? (Lol, of course not!)

I'm not promoting that we ALL go back to it. And posting those bison skulls was alluding to the waste and lack of sustainability that unfettered capitalism can be associated with lately. Those settlers were incentivized to kill the animals. The government wanted the indigenous gone. So they decided to delete the bison, a resource the indigenous were dependent upon.

I was just saying human existence seemed to be working pretty well before the literal and figurative poison from Europe illegally migrated.

We might benefit from an exercise in living closer to the Earth, and a good first step would be a personal garden or chickens for eggs.

Anyways, who is to say what 8B people will do, or have to do? But for certain, this planet, kinda like our own physical body that we live in, is the only one we're gonna get.
Best take care of it.

Rosemary, and all the empathy it lacks, is absolutely dominating the planet right now. You're aware that even empathy can be used to toxify emotional environments?
Check out Dark Empaths.

NLOmaha.

When the Maori reached NZ, it was a cataclysm for NZ environment, and it was a mass exctinction event.

My point is ALL HUMAN SOCIETIES MASSACRE THE ENVIRONMENT. That's what we are built for. We made all the world megafauna extinct lol. We are death. We should embrace who we are. We are the masters of the realm, we decide who lives and who doesn't in the "natural world", we are the apex predator. No shame in that, no moral virtue in denying our role among living species.