Israel/Palestine thread

antisemitism is out of control

Sieg Heil, as you people say.

So lefties in this thread openly hate Jews and support their wishful genociders like Hamas - no Sig Heil from you.
I answer a question about ethnic media control in the US with pure facts, as an Israel supporter no less, and it's Sig Heil.

Extremely strange worldview you have.

you know who else thought that Jews were a separate ethnicity?

Victor, do you know what an ethnicity is? lol

You think Jews from Ethiopia or India or Europe are the same ethnicity? You think Jews from Europe are different than other Europeans?

Yeah it’s a bit weird that hardcore antisemites have co-opted calling people Nazis and they don’t see any irony in it. Kind of makes sense given you had Gen z brain rots questioning whether bin Laden was right or not.

There’s not much to expect from peoples whose worldview is completely shaped by misinformation. They quite literally don’t live in the real world.

It feels like some sort of cope/projection for adopting worldviews congruent with the actual Nazis. These soft leftists can’t handle it so start to label others Nazis when in reality they are referring to themselves.

Victor seems incapable of even the lowest definitions of intelligent thought. I don’t know why you keep trying to engage this sea urchin.

1st question no, and they don’t claim to be. They literally have different names for each of those groups lol

Second question, uh yeah, European isn’t an ethnicity for one and even if I accept your belief that Jews have the same DNA as the European cline whose geographic region they are from, that still doesn’t mean they are the same ethnicity because ethnicity is usually defined as shared cultural practice and tradition. So there can be different ethnic groups in a shared geographic region.

The more you know buddy 😀

Again, you know who else thought Jews were a separate ethnicity than the rest of Europe?

Does this special status apply to Catholics and Protestants?

Europe is not an ethnicity. Catholic and Protestant churches were highly correlated to different ethnicities yes. They didn’t themselves qualify as ethnic groups but certainly different ethnic groups are identified more strongly with one or the other.

Protestant and Catholic are also broad categories. There are different Protestant and Catholic sects/rites respectively, much as Jewish can be a broad category with different local practices.

We’re also being somewhat anachronistic here by trying to subsume all of Europe under the category European. There are plenty of ethnicities that got lost to history, especially after the advent of nationalism over and against the previous system of being ruled by lords and kings. In the post WW1 and especially post WW2 era there was more of a push to establish national boundaries which had been much more fluid and subject to conquest prior. So a certain ethnic group could change rulers more frequently, without being tied to a particular nationality. So the idea that Jews must belong to a particular ethnicity because they are under a national border is retrojecting our own ideas of nationality and ethnicity onto a past where those categories were either nonexistent or more fluid.

Edit: as an example, the Ottoman empire was controlled obviously by the Ottomans, but they didn’t try to make everyone Ottoman. Being an Ottoman was preserved for the region we now call Turkey, and they accepted local autonomy and didn’t try to change ethnic identity in the geographic regions they conquered.

Cmon man, no one would say that a German Catholic or German Protestant are different ethnicities.

German Protestantism is a big part of their cultural identity. But I’m not sure why it’s hard to understand why people who exclusively speak the same language and who have a shared ecclesial history might be closer in ethnic identity.

Also Lutheranism was founded by a Catholic who happened to write a very famous polemic against the Jews.

Do you go around denying ethnic identities in the Indian subcontinent too or is this just a particular anti-white racism?

--Ethnicity, like most socially constructed labels, have some underlying truth but are very fluid around the edges, especially when applied in the real world. This isn't hard.

--"Jewish" is a good example of a label that has a lot of fluidity, where normally the user uses/shapes it to their own desired ends. "Arab" is another such term.

--Why are Egyptians Arab, and Iranians and Kurds not? There is no consistent demarcation. It is a constructed identity/label filled with contradictions.

India/Pakistan is a contemporary "ethnic" split that we are witnessing in real time. For hundreds of years Muslim and non Muslim (mostly but not always Hindu) Indians co-existed within the Indian subcontinent and were not considered separate ethnicities.

With Partition in 1947 and the creation of Pakistan, this shared "ethnic" identity is slowly diverging. Recently, Pakistan successfully petitioned to have their nation officially considered part of West Asia and NOT the Indian subcontinent. I expect in a couple hundred years (assuming the world survives, which might be a poor assumption) Pakistanis will probably be understood and accepted by everyone as a completely separate ethnicity as Indians.

Right. I would argue that it can go the other way too. The “German” ethnic super-identity is a constructed one, as there are regional subgroups that very well could have their own ethnic identity but were pushed towards a common label by German Idealism (which eventually had a big influence on Nazi ideology).

Victor is somewhat correct in that it could have gone either way historically whether Jews were considered fully German or not. It just so happened historically that they are considered a separate ethnic group. Since ethnicity isn’t actually anything except shared history, culture, and traditions, there’s nothing that says this type of contingent historical circumstance doesn’t qualify you to have a different ethnicity.

People from the transatlantic slave trade probably come from a certain geographic region as well and aren’t ancestrally that much different from West Africans. But now they have a different ethnicity Black Americans. Genetically they can trace their roots back to Africa but that doesn’t mean their ethnicity is invalid. Contingent historical facts are a way to construct ethnicity just as a matter of description, not prescription.

seems like its more than this. otherwise there would be no ethnic difference between white and black Americans.

Iranians and Kurds don't speak Arabic.

You don’t think there were any differences in history between black and white Americans? lol

Edit: plus I wouldn’t know if I would say white American is an ethnicity.

you dont think there are differences in the history between whites in various parts of the USA? you are splitting hairs but it wont work.

if a white American family adopts a black (or Asian or Arabic or whatever) baby at birth and raises it in whatever environment everyone would see the difference. if they adopted a baby that had Euro-Jewish parents, then everyone would just consider the kid to be white.

I absolutely believe there are different ethnicities of white people within the US, yes.

If two brown haired parents with brown eyes adopted a red haired child everyone would also see the difference lol

Meh, if they adopted a white Middle Eastern kid they would also be considered white, this doesn’t make a very convincing argument.

You’re just tugging on some edge cases, and leveraging phenotype vs genotype as a way of motivating the edge cases. Yes when someone’s history is erased in an adoption scenario, they can be assimilated into a different culture. That doesn’t follow that their parents’ culture doesn’t exist because they can be assimilated into another one.

Besides, you ignored the other prong of the equation. Why are black Americans a different ethnicity from the African countries that they were taken from? Or for that matter, why are East Africans organized in different ethnicities like Kenyans vs Eretreans vs Ugandans vs Ethiopians vs Somali vs Kenya? Many of these countries if you did that same thing to you would find their kid wouldn’t look out of place. But in that case it would seem pretty weird to say their ethnicities are not valid because you wouldn’t be able to tell their children apart in an adoption scenario.

no, you are the one tugging at edge cases and splitting hairs.

this is particularly disingenuous.

culture language history lineage.

bc there is more to it than culture language lineage.

but the main difference Jews have from the rest of most white Americans is what? religion. am I a different ethnicity bc I am athiest? or agnostics and devout Catholics and devout Protestants all different ethnicities?

only Jews get this distinction and it is bc of Jewish Exceptionalism or Jewish Supremacy or Philo-Judaism.

Let’s take a step back because now I’m not sure I understand your argument. You previously made the argument that because a Jewish person would be considered white when adopted, that means they aren’t a separate ethnicity. Yet you deny the same in the case of the East African context. So are you retracting your previous argument or is there a symmetry breaker that makes it so that perceived lineage after adoption is relevant in one case but irrelevant in another?

theres def a symmetry breaker. and I dont think religion is the determinant. Judaism is a religion. its not a blood quota, like Hitler thought.

I get that you’re saying there is a symmetry breaker, I’m just trying to understand what that is, since the East African example seems to be symmetrical. I’m speaking specifically about your adopted Jewish child argument. You seem to be saying that if we can’t determine their ethnicity based on phenotype when put into an adopted family, that indicates they are not a different ethnicity. I then used a symmetrical-seeming case of some East African ethnicity being adopted by a different East African ethnicity. If what you say holds, then we should think East Africans don’t really have different ethnicities, since if adopted they would not be distinguishable from the East African ethnicity they were adopted into.

What is the symmetry breaker there, exactly?