Israel/Palestine thread

Luciom: Israel needs to eradicate Hamas, and that's more important than preserving civilian palestinian lives. Which doesn't mean the latter can't occur, but starts mattering only when choosing among options that guarantee the eradication of Hamas.

Hamas on purpose make it so that civilians die in great number if you attempt to eradicate Hamas.

People start claiming it's insane to keep attempting to eradicate Hamas if it costs civilian lives.

Hamas wins (which currently means, survives eradication), which is what you actually want to accomplish.

Luciom: I am 100% okay with killing every single last Palestinian if that means Hamas is eradicated.

Discussion of "nuking Gaza" is absolutely ridiculous. It is so unnecessary.

The solution is so simple and humane. All we have to do is build a secure refugee camp in the desert, allow unarmed civilians to move there, stop sending aid into Gaza. Use facial recognition to arrest any militants that try to sneak in. Then we clear Gaza out completely of the militants and their military equipment and the people go back to a demilitarized society. And we move towards a better day.

There are solutions. We just need the will to stop supporting Palestinian nihilism.

1) Would Israel "like" all of the land? Who wouldn't. But would they accept rigid, defined borders, and an end to settlements, in exchange for peace? In an nanosecond. But until it is clear the other side actually wants peace then they remain at war. No reason to stop adding to the settlements.

2) You really seem flippant in your attitude about Hamas. This makes you and your points irrelevant.

Some people are trying as hard as they can politically to push Israel to actually do the genocide that never happened and which they say has happened, just so they can be proven right. That's how much some people care about palestinian civilians.

Everyone, please address CONTENT, not each other

Well the "some people" for me was about groups in the west (and elsewhere), those who ask to stop sending weapons to Israel, or are trying to force a ceasefire, or are trying to increase aid a lot without any supervision which would allow Hamas to steal more of it and so on.

That's content i hope, i think there are groups who actually want to push Israel so much they will snap and start doing what they falsely claim Israel purportedly has done already (genocidal stuff and so on).

whenever israel agrees to a cease fire, they still kill hundreds of civilians every few years

do you acknowledge this?

who is more dangerous, hamas or the IDF?

there is absolutely no indication that Israel would end the occupation for "peace". we know this bc Hamas has offered this very thing on many occasions. they said they will end hostilities for the 67 borders and end of occupation.

I am not flippant towards Hamas. its the opposite actually. I actually read what they say and learn about their goals. thats why I push back on the cartoonish notion that they just want to "genocide the Jews" or are driven by "ancient antisemitism" or are "Islamofascists" and all the other nonsense in this thread.

they are pretty clear on their goals to end the occupation and create a Palestinian state. and its pretty clear that International Law allows for armed struggle to achieve those goals.

Id like to see an argument about who is more dangerous,

IDF or Hamas

So far Hamas is has killed 2000 israelis or something? and Israel has killed like 50k palestinians?

lets discuss, it seems like some people are confused about what danger means and how to gauge it

Hamas has broken every single cease fire since the 2000s. Israel death tolls on Palestinians is related to retaliation.

You're continually caught up in a numbers game, which respectfully, is a childish argument.

al Qaeda killed ~3k US civilians on 9/11. The US killed has killed ~450k villains in Afghanistan and Iraq in retaliation.

Who is more dangerous... al Queda, or the US?

The US? Was that a trick question?

Funnily enough it's the US. US and Iraq is about the worst example you could've used.

Vietnam was incredibly worse than Iraq. Because of conscription , and because the US lost.

Iraq is in a decent path right now, certainly a far better one than under Hussein, and qurds especially are.

You know, those victims of an actual genocide by an actual oppressor, those ethnic people who are actually different than their neighbours culturally yet were always denied a country, yes those people, the qurds.

"but the US didn't invade Iraq to help the qurds" says the person that every time it gains to be one, is otherwise always a consequentialist

I know I know. You'll justify the Iraq war with some warmongering nonsense and you'll justify the Abu Ghraib torture and prisoner abuse with the same.

But in reality the entire Bush administration should be in prison for life.

well, the USA duh.

but regardless, resistance groups are entitled under International Law to armed struggle against an occupying force. so no, there has never been a ceasefire bc Israel has never ceased its illegal, brutal, murderous, apartheid, occupation and siege.

lol if you think any sane country would ever give control over both sides of their borders to a terrorist org. if Hamas truly wants those things they would disband as an org.

also you keep talking about how they are a sane organization engaged in armed resistance. too bad they committed oct 7th, too bad they were elected to government when Israel withdrew and subsequently ended all elections, too bad they steal aid meant to improve the economy and lives of Palestinians to build tunnels for their terrorist network, too bad they launch rockets indiscriminately into Israel to provoke war.

Nobody actually buys what the lefties are trying to sell about armed resistance, at least no one with a brain. They are treated as cartoonish villains because they are that

The US. That’s why we beat them, because we are more dangerous.

No, I think it's an incredibly accurate analogy.

Ya... think you guys have shown your reasoning ability pretty clearly in here. Things are very binary for you, and Hamas and terrorist are good / victims, and countries like Israel and US, bad, and the perpetrators.

Anyone have any questions? Why is anyone arguing w/ these people anymore?

A child and a parent go to the store

The child asks for a candy

The parent says no

The child says they are hungry

The parent says if you cry I will slap you in the face

The child is hungry and begins to cry

The parent slaps them in the face

Who is at fault for the slap?

I'm not in camp Hamas at all. Quite the opposite. Your analogy is just terrible.

A crying child is when the worst terrorist attack on Jews since the holocaust.

Nice job infantilizing brown people by the way. I swear leftists actually believe in the White Man’s Burden and think brown people are incapable of waging violence with intention.

How so?

It's an incredibly complex, and pretty accurate representation of what's going on in Israel.

The US can easily be seen as the bullies in the Iraq/Afghan wars. They lied themselves into a war, on the pretext of defense, after having ~3k of their civilians, brutally killed. But they had to respond, even if part of the initial reason for the attacks was blowback of US foreign policy.

That's the entire point of this mess in Israel / Palestine. Both sides are simultaneously victims / perpetrators, but everyone in here is caught up like school children, claiming only one side is at fault. It's sophomoric reasoning, at best.

lol, did you think comparing Israel to America's post-9/11 lust for blood was going to look good for Israel?

My point went so far over your head, it's circling Saturn right now.