Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]Edit: RULES FOR THIS THREAD
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Caitlin rarely misses
there were signs
Many of the great statesman have built up their following in exile. Why arenÂ’t there more Palestinian Americans trying to take charge of Gaza? IÂ’m sure they could get CIA/regime change funding if they tried hard enough.
The PA is not even really able to get full control of the West Bank. It seems like too many young Palestinian men would rather fight a hopeless fight that they see as just than make the tough compromises necessary to form a state.
You are viewing this as a westerner with an ethos of individualism. The literal definition of Islam is "submission" which is pretty much the exact opposite. Islamic societies view social cohesion and submission to the Ummah as pretty much the highest value. And the hive mind of the Ummah dictates that violent Islamist groups resisting Israel should be morally and materially supported, and not challenged.
Any individual potential leader who bucked the hive mind would be treated with scorn by most of the Ummah, ostracized, and would possibly assassinated. We see this with Iranian women, even victims of rape and other horrible abuse, who are treated extremely poorly by the Ummah (and their Western progressive sycophants) when they defect to the West and speak out against Islamism and the IRI.
yanks finally removed one of their carriers from the area, wonder if that's related to them saying not to start a war with hez, or other reasons. they had been there for months iirc
so apparently a bunch of people have resigned their positions: the iof ground forces commander, the head of the military intelligence directorate, the commander of the gaza division, and the commander of unit 8200 military intelligence all "quit" (the last guy might be dead, unclear at this point). nobody wants to work anymore smdh
European spies claimed that Hezbollah actually killed 22 of Barak Ravid's intelligence brethren in the Unit 8200 spy facility a few weeks ago as retaliation for the assassination in Beirut.
guessing we won't find out until this is all over, but i'm curious if they got that guy who "resigned". apparently he was one of their primary targets...
ya theres speculation a bunch of those guys quit or got seriously injured due to the Hezbollah strike. Israeli censor is strict so who knows.
in other news Colonel Vach, who was well known for initially spreading the beheaded babies atrocity propaganda was "mildly injured" a few days ago in a tunnel collapse.
https://english.almayadeen.net/news/poli...
mildly injured could mean anywhere from a double amputee to dead to a spained ankle fwiw. some people think he may have actually died too.
this was ofc the story from Palestinian sources weeks ago. people got angry at me when I relayed it. now Israeli media makes the same claim.
I do like the subtle racism in the last sentence altho this is a google translate so maybe its not perfect.
probably not great for Farhan who has already been targeted by the far right of Israel just bc he survived and the hostages didnt.
You are viewing this as a westerner with an ethos of individualism. The literal definition of Islam is "submission" which is pretty much the exact opposite. Islamic societies view social cohesion and submission to the Ummah as pretty much the highest value. And the hive mind of the Ummah dictates that violent Islamist groups resisting Israel should be morally and materially supported, and not challenged.
Any individual potential leader who bucked the hive mind would be treated with scorn by mo
Culture is just the thought terminating cliche that people use when they see an intractable conflict and just want to throw their hands up. The right uses it because they want to justify the need for constant conflict and lack of international governance that the ultra nationalist program basically guarantees. The left uses it when they want to infantilize brown people and remove any more agency from them.
So yeah I know I’m going to get it from both sides on this take but I’m so tired of people pretending that there is absolutely nothing that can change about what’s happening with Palestine. We see two very different paths already set out before us, and this war should not break down relationships with the West Bank because some ultrazios want to see full Palestinian annexation and some ultra lefties want to see full Jewish cleansing because they’re settler colonialist.
It’s absolutely not true that because the culture is less individualistic that means they are stuck with Hamas leadership for the rest of eternity. They absolutely do have the power to rise up and the West would be the first to support them if they did because Israel right now is an albatross for them.
You all realize that Palestine supporters blocking US streets just makes Americans care less about what is happening in Gaza right?
I only brought up the 1967 borders as a reference to Arafat's offer in 1988.
Discussing 1967 borders in 2024 is a waste of space.
discussing any borders is a waste of space. we will have a one state solution soon enough. we already do actually.
discussing any borders is a waste of space. we will have a one state solution soon enough. we already do actually.
This is basically what I've said throughout this thread when borders are brought up.
There's currently one state. And the problem isn't that there aren't two states. The problem is that about a third of the population is beaten down while disenfranchised.
Sorry, I fired that out in a few secs before entering a meeting.
You were arguing on behalf that tech bros weren't legal targets amongst other things to justify the attack on oct 7.
If someone was proposing that it's morally okay to enter Gaza to gun down a bunch of folks at a dance party because they may or many not have served in some sort of military capacity on the bases of them being legal targets or just worthy of death ... then I'd put their logic as redic as what you were defending.
It's both standard and telling for people to denigrate the other side to justify the actions in wartime. It isn't anything new.
The problem in every war is you've got a high % of innocent people mixed in. Both of us should be able to recognize their right to survive.
This is basically what I've said throughout this thread when borders are brought up.
There's currently one state. And the problem isn't that there aren't two states. The problem is that about a third of the population is beaten down while disenfranchised.
I don't follow how you can claim there is one state, if you claim WB settlements are illegal.
Sorry, I fired that out in a few secs before entering a meeting.
You were arguing on behalf that tech bros weren't legal targets amongst other things to justify the attack on oct 7.
If someone was proposing that it's morally okay to enter Gaza to gun down a bunch of folks at a dance party because they may or many not have served in some sort of military capacity on the bases of them being legal targets or just worthy of death ... then I'd put their logic as redic as what you were defending.
It's bo
one of us must be confused. Where did I argue that? Are you saying thats what you think I was arguing? or youre repeating my argument that I previously posted?
have you been denouncing the IDF logic that anyone supporting hamas needs to be killed? I dont think you have. Have you?
The world’s oldest Jewish newspaper, the Jewish Chronicle, has removed a series of sensational articles relating to the Gaza war after claims that the material was fabricated by a “freelance journalist” who had also misrepresented his résumé.
After an investigation last week into the author, Elon Perry, the Jewish Chronicle put out a two-paragraph announcement late on Friday night, saying that it was unsatisfied with explanations supplied by the journalist regarding his assertions.
...
Highly sensational, the articles purported to describe blow-by-blow Israeli operations – including what would be regarded as sensitive details – and intelligence purportedly gathered by Israel on the fugitive Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar and his plans.
Journalists covering the Gaza conflict, already dubious about the veracity of the material, were unable to establish a meaningful record of Perry’s bona fides as described by the paper. Those suspicions were pushed into the open last week as a series of reports in the Israeli media described Perry’s articles as “fabrications”.
For clarity, this relates to fabricated stories 'planted as part of an effort to support prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s negotiating position over Gaza.'
Simply put, I honestly can't imagine that Hamas is shocked by Israel's response to the oct 7th attack. If this was the preferred outcome for a group of freedom fighters, you're a pretty shitty military organization.
Every indication is they didn’t plan for Israeli response, mostly they didn’t plan for “success.”
Iran, Hizbollah, and even Hamas’ own political leadership immediately began to distance themselves from the **** show. It was even reported Haniyeh offered disarmament in return for not getting unalived and unenriched. Then it became quickly obvious Sinwar controlled Hamas, not any of the political leaders.
Now Sinwar is just looking for a way to survive.
one of us must be confused. Where did I argue that? Are you saying thats what you think I was arguing?
So I assumed that was what you meant.
My main frustration with this war is that you've got about 2 million Palestinians in literal peril with the overwhelming majority bearing no responsibility or having a choice to be born and raised in that area of the world.
The IDF is absolutely committing a genocide but it isn't surprising at all to see it happening. But hamas has hez have clearly broken the record for having the win win combination of being the most idiotic and craziest mother****ers in recorded human history.
2 million human beings should never have to have their fortune determined by people like this.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/...
Russia Sharing Nuclear Secrets With Iran Fuels US, UK Worries
Yemen learned the one neat trick to absolve yourself civilian mass murder.
jk obv they arent gonna carpet bomb a bunch of children.
incidentally
so did Yemen develop that missile or get it from Iran?
unrelated, it appears that the orders given the evacuate some Southern Lebanese villages was from a rogue IDF Air Force group. seems fine. keep sending them weapons, nothing to worry about it.
