Ukraine-Russia War Take 2
Here is what the preliminary take on the Ukraine thread disappearing is:
The site was hit with a massive spam attack where hundreds of spam threads were created. In the case where, for example, I see a single spam thread and delete it, that is called a soft delete, and mods can still see them but forum members cannot. Those deletion can be undone.
When a massive attack hits with hundreds of threads, an admin uses a different procedure where the hundreds of spam threads are merged and then hard deleted, where the threads are gone, and no note is left behind. As I have mentioned with my own experience of just soft deleting a large number of posts, sometimes a post or thread gets checked or merged accidentally and is deleted by mistake. Dealing with hundreds of spam threads takes a sledgehammer, not a scalpel.
It appears that our Ukraine thread may have gotten caught up in that recent net of spam threads. If so, it is likely gone for good. I cant say this for sure, and am awaiting comments from admins on this issue. Yes, this sucks. And hopefully there was some other software glitch that caused the disappearance, and we may recover it in the future.
But in the meantime, I have created this new Ukraine-Russia War thread to enable the conversation to continue. Obviously continuity with earlier discussions will be lost. There is no way around that. So as best as possible, let's pick up the conversation with recent events and go from there.
If you have any questions about this, please post them in the mod thread, not here. Let's keep this thread going with posts about the war, not the disappearance of the old thread.
Thanks.
I'll at least do what I can and stop posting on all forums on this platform. I have absolutely no interest to contribute in any poker discussions on a platform that allows this stuff.
Bye
You aren't a regular contributor to this forum with 7 P&S posts in the last 4 years and 4 of those posts are you throwing down the gauntlet on misinformation
This is the reality we live in where a significant portion of people are victim to misinformation. That will continue to be the reality. The misinformation blitzkrieg has proven to be incredibly effective and isn't going anywhere anytime soon. Hard censorship just breeds resentment and conspiracy. I'm also not interested in creating a "safe space" or a circle jerk.
The details of the "mineral earth deal" has leaked, and it is pretty much a nothing burger. Neither side is really offering much. Just another "deal" where Trump claims a W to his base but nothing really changes.
US are getting all the money back they had effectively given to Ukraine and written off, and more. Meanwhile Russia are now also bending over for Trump offering mineral rights.
Trump might be escalating the chances of WWIII, but he is getting the US rich off the back of it.
US are getting all the money back they had effectively given to Ukraine and written off, and more. Meanwhile Russia are now also bending over for Trump offering mineral rights.
Trump might be escalating the chances of WWIII, but he is getting the US rich off the back of it.
Russia isn't offering anything (yet). On Russian TV Putin just threw out some comments that if the US is interested in rare metals, Russia has plenty to offer.
The Ukraine "deal" is for future development that may or may not ever happen. The US is guaranteed no interest in anything currently happening in Ukraine.
Russia isn't offering anything (yet). On Russian TV Putin just threw out some comments that if the US is interested in rare metals, Russia has plenty to offer.
The Ukraine "deal" is for future development that may or may not ever happen. The US is guaranteed no interest in anything currently happening in Ukraine.
Correct. Russia has made no concessions, promises or deals. They were given a blank slate and wrote in what they wanted, and then they left the part about what they were giving up empty.
Of course, outside the halls of diplomacy where American incompetence has raged on, Russia has suffered 800 000 casualties over three years and enormous amounts of material losses. While they have inflicted untold suffering upon Ukraine and brought the country to the brink of ruin, this war is very much a catastrophe for Russia.
Yeah, I could be wrong and Putin plans to just plow ahead with his China/Iran/NK alliance no matter how bad it gets; but I think it is also possible he might be amendable to an off-ramp deal that lets him normalize with the West and dissociate from his current "allies" without losing face. And it might be in everyone's best interests to facilitate this.
And a very half glass full interpretation of current events is that this is what the Trump administration is trying to orchestrate. Although the callous way they are throwing Zelensky and European nations under the bus to give Putin his offramp is very obviously very off putting.
Trump says Putin will have to make 'concessions' to secure a deal, which may be news to Putin if he hasn't got Trump figured out yet.
Most of Ukraine's rare-earth resources are in the east of the country, in areas either Russian-occupied or close to the battle-line. If American interests are concentrated in those areas, which Trump is portraying to the media as a virtual security guarantee regardless of formal NATO membership, Putin may find his ambition to recreate the glory days of the USSR somewhat inhibited.
Trump says Putin will have to make 'concessions' to secure a deal, which may be news to Putin if he hasn't got Trump figured out yet.
Most of Ukraine's rare-earth resources are in the east of the country, in areas either Russian-occupied or close to the battle-line. If American interests are concentrated in those areas, which Trump is portraying to the media as a virtual security guarantee regardless of formal NATO membership, Putin may find his ambiti
yeah. I have pointed this out to the "Trump is a Russian puppet" crowd a few times, but it really hasn't gotten any traction. The idea that Trump is selling out Ukraine to Russia AND setting up deals with the Ukrainian govt to plunder Ukraine in the future are not coherent.
I think he is trying to give enough concessions to Russia to get them to make peace, while furthering US interests in what is left of Ukraine. But I have no clue what it would take to get Putin on board with this plan, or if it is even possible.
Yeah, I could be wrong and Putin plans to just plow ahead with his China/Iran/NK alliance no matter how bad it gets; but I think it is also possible he might be amendable to an off-ramp deal that lets him normalize with the West and dissociate from his current "allies" without losing face. And it might be in everyone's best interests to facilitate this.
And a very half glass full interpretation of current events is that this is what the Trump administration is trying to orchestrate. Alth
Trump says Putin will have to make 'concessions' to secure a deal, which may be news to Putin if he hasn't got Trump figured out yet.
Most of Ukraine's rare-earth resources are in the east of the country, in areas either Russian-occupied or close to the battle-line. If American interests are concentrated in those areas, which Trump is portraying to the media as a virtual security guarantee regardless of formal NATO membership, Putin may find his ambiti
There is a lot of speculation about deals and strategic considerations, and the chaos of Trump administration habit of saying random crap and making stuff up can make those speculations sound better in a vacuum. However, in the grand picture, there isn't much advanced deal-making to be seen.
As for the future, no deal involving Ukraine will be worth two cents without security guarantees, and there are no security guarantees on the table.
We know what a weak agreement will lead to. Minsk II was an unmitigated disaster and a horrible piece of diplomacy, and clear evidence that the powers of Europe can be incompetent buffoons when they put their mind too it as well.
When trump spoke about him ending this war in 1 day was the equivalent of 1 « bible day » not a « earthly human day ».
My bad , I just misunderstood.
Him being being such a disciple of god , I should of know better with what he was referring too ….
Finland , Estonia , Latvia isnÂ’t at Russia doorstep while being nato members ?
Nato is has a much reason has trump fentanyl or illegals immigration from Canada to justify tariffs .
ItÂ’s hor$e$h!t .
The current situation is the result of a long term encroachment strategy which developed over the broken American promise of no eastward NATO expansion as a condition for the peaceful (in aspiration) dismantling of the Soviet empire. The whole time, for reasons too obscure to get into here, Russia has maintained that Ukraine was the absolute red line on that. That's what the Russians have said. Do you not understand that or think it is false?
True, at least not in the absolute sense. That's pretty standard given the geographical setup, not to mention the country is populated with ethnic Russians. Russia has said do what you want except that one thing where you give key strategic military territory to people who want to destroy us and have the means to do so. This isn't the independent ideal, but it's a practical and acceptable constraint on independence, one which can probably reduce the chance that you or I get nuked while reading TwoPlusTwo. I don't want to die squinting my eyes at some absurd post of Gamblor's 19th burner account.
ya don't
For you to claim ukrayne is not a legitimate democracy while not denouncing Russia fake democracy is hilarious .
Zelensky is far more legit then Putin despite any faults you can attribute to both of them .
Russia has universal healthcare, I assume because people want it. When do we get to decide what we want? I get to choose between evil/crazy 1 and evil/crazy 2 and you think that is democracy?
The "Democratic" party didn't even have a primary this last election. One of the 2 people to choose from failed to win a single delegate in the last primary. She was just chosen by a few people. Maybe spell out some definitions of democracy you like. Assess whether you live in a democracy or not, and only when you can honestly answer that affirmatively then take it upon yourself to tell other countries what kind of system is best for them. Until then I suspect you have a lot of work to do.
When trump spoke about him ending this war in 1 day was the equivalent of 1 « bible day » not a « earthly human day ».
My bad , I just misunderstood.
Him being being such a disciple of god , I should of know better with what he was referring too ….
Trump is a liar and a fool, but one should be careful not to let his hyperbole and self-aggrandizing distort reality.
Russia is to blame for starting the war and they are to blame for not ending it. We can nitpick about whether "Russia" in this context should refer to the Russian regime, the inner circle of the Regime, Putin himself or the country... but at the end of the day, that debate is not all that relevant.
It hasn't been very good for the last ten years or so, and it wasn't great before.
Maryinka, video from the occupiers' cameras, the city and its environs are completely destroyed, the russian world in all its glory, the city was freed from life.
they really dress him down here. almost feel sorry for him but naw.
What a disgraceful trainwreck
Trump and Vance are just being amateurish out-of-their-depth jerks, as you'd expect.
Zelenskyy could have read the room better. That being said the question before this was someone from Poland saying they were worried if Poland gets targeted wich trump said it wouldn’t happen and if it did he would respond.
I do think Zelenskyy wanted more assurances makes sense given history, crimea etc what makes it say he won’t try again in a few years? To be honest the fact US gets minerals out of it is assurance enough I would assume.
Is Trump a full on Russian asset at this point? Are we there yet?
Zelenskyy could have read the room better. That being said the question before this was someone from Poland saying they were worried if Poland gets targeted wich trump said it wouldn’t happen and if it did he would respond.
I do think Zelenskyy wanted more assurances makes sense given history, crimea etc what makes it say he won’t try again in a few years? To be honest the fact US gets minerals out of it is assurance enough I would assume.
afaik they ended up NOT signing that agreement
Yeah honestly from my outside view I don’t know what Russia has that US could want. Also the fact that Russia did start it is enough to be on side of anti and EU but the fact Russia is a) willing to go to world war and b) we don’t want that nor send troops . I guess that’s why trump has taken a lighter stance.
Just seems like if this was the 80s or 90s there’s no way this the the line most of the word is taking maybe everyone is smarter from it not going to war or wanting deaths like that.
I guess it is frustrating that Ukraine got invaded and really can’t do anything about it since nobody is willing to stand up to the “bully”
Hope a deal gets done soon so no more deaths.
LMAO. its ****ing over 1000000 told you sos to bluegrayplayer wherever you are
you must not be watching the same show as me. bc this has shown how idiotic it was for Zelensky and the Ukrainian elites to get in bed with the Americans and sell out their country in the hopes of ruling as compradors.
Let’s say for fun Ukraine wouldn’t have go to sleep with the US .
How would Ukraine be today ?
