Ukraine-Russia War Take 2
Here is what the preliminary take on the Ukraine thread disappearing is:
The site was hit with a massive spam attack where hundreds of spam threads were created. In the case where, for example, I see a single spam thread and delete it, that is called a soft delete, and mods can still see them but forum members cannot. Those deletion can be undone.
When a massive attack hits with hundreds of threads, an admin uses a different procedure where the hundreds of spam threads are merged and then hard deleted, where the threads are gone, and no note is left behind. As I have mentioned with my own experience of just soft deleting a large number of posts, sometimes a post or thread gets checked or merged accidentally and is deleted by mistake. Dealing with hundreds of spam threads takes a sledgehammer, not a scalpel.
It appears that our Ukraine thread may have gotten caught up in that recent net of spam threads. If so, it is likely gone for good. I cant say this for sure, and am awaiting comments from admins on this issue. Yes, this sucks. And hopefully there was some other software glitch that caused the disappearance, and we may recover it in the future.
But in the meantime, I have created this new Ukraine-Russia War thread to enable the conversation to continue. Obviously continuity with earlier discussions will be lost. There is no way around that. So as best as possible, let's pick up the conversation with recent events and go from there.
If you have any questions about this, please post them in the mod thread, not here. Let's keep this thread going with posts about the war, not the disappearance of the old thread.
Thanks.
I thought Trump would continue the war given how much it benefited certain factions of the ruling class. but I wasnt really aware of how much the Ukrainians tried to help the Dems with the Russiagate hoax and peetape and all that. its clear this is personal to Trump.
regardless, this was always going to end in disaster for the Ukrainian people. never get in bed with the Americans.
I thought Trump would continue the war given how much it benefited certain factions of the ruling class. but I wasnt really aware of how much the Ukrainians tried to help the Dems with the Russiagate hoax and peetape and all that. its clear this is personal to Trump.
regardless, this was always going to end in disaster for the Ukrainian people. never get in bed with the Americans.
Just say never defend yourself vs an invader ?
There is no understating just how bad this is.
Not technically an asset, but based on his actions, he may as well be.
regardless, this was always going to end in disaster for the Ukrainian people. never get in bed with the Americans.
The Euros had a pretty good run being in bed with the USA, but until now anyway.
Extraordinary stuff.
I suspect far less is changed by it than people seem to think. The sitiuation is really ****ed up for Ukraine but sticking up for himself might be better (or no worse ) than zelensky going full spineless starmer. Trump doeasn't really care as long as you end up bending the knee as he does his deals. He may well even be more disposed when winning his deals after a fight than vs capitualation.
Zelensky is an actor, literally an actor. He has no military experience. He was acting in a show about an actor who became president of Ukraine. Then he actually became president of Ukraine.
As far as Trump being out of his depth...he's far more advanced than most of you because he apparently has the ability to digest simple provable facts which many Americans deny because they conflict with the war hawk propaganda. Trump might be out of his depth but you're in an imaginary pool.
At least Trump is being honest with Zelensky. What did Biden do? He held out NATO membership as a carrot inducing Ukraine to get hundreds of thousands of them killed and then was like "psyche". I don't see how you can be a bigger jerk than getting hundreds of thousands of people killed over nothing, even less than nothing given the territory Ukraine will cede now.
Were you trying to get some desperate Ukrainian bride as a passport bro or something? Why are you so upset at the prospect of peace?
Zelensky is an actor, literally an actor. He has no military experience. He was acting in a show about an actor who became president of Ukraine. Then he actually became president of Ukraine.
As far as Trump being out of his depth...he's far more advanced than most of you because he apparently has the ability to digest simple provable facts which many Americans deny because they conflict with the war hawk propaganda. Trump might be out of his depth but you're in an imaginary pool.
At least Trump is
Reagan was an actor too, not sure what your point is?
Zelensky is a true leader defending his country against Putin's aggression. Trump is coming across as a bullying robber baron and I absolutely applaud President Zelensky for standing up for himself and his country and refusing to be cowed or bullied, or go along with Trump & Vance's patronising arrogant bullshit.
ask the Germans how great their economy is doing after after Biden blew up the pipeline that provided gas for cheap.
The economy is bad in Germany because of self-committed economic suicide. It wasn't Biden who closed their nuclear reactors, it wasn't Biden who imposed to Germany to invest too much in shitty renewables.
And it wasn't Biden who forced the EU to pass absolutely insane laws and regulations "for the climate" to destroy the automotive industrial sector. We are *FINING* our companies if they don't seel increasing shares of EVs as a % of the total number of cars they sell. We are being destroyed by green marxism.
And it was all done by ourselves.
The USA dodged that for now with this election which gave a chance to the west to survive the existential threat the left poses to our economies
Reagan was an actor too, not sure what your point is?
Zelensky is a true leader defending his country against Putin's aggression. Trump is coming across as a bullying robber baron and I absolutely applaud President Zelensky for standing up for himself and his country and refusing to be cowed or bullied, or go along with Trump & Vance's patronising arrogant bullshit.
This is insane, the only thing that matters is what you accomplish, and if to save your country you have to bend the knee to Trump and beg him and thank him profusely and so on, you should do that.
"being right" isn't a virtue, the ONLY THING THAT EVER MATTERS is the outcome at ANY cost and nothing else has any value or consideration, when it's about survival. Nothing.
This is insane, the only thing that matters is what you accomplish, and if to save your country you have to bend the knee to Trump and beg him and thank him profusely and so on, you should do that.
"being right" isn't a virtue, the ONLY THING THAT EVER MATTERS is the outcome at ANY cost and nothing else has any value or consideration, when it's about survival. Nothing.
Yeah....
Spoiler
i thought lil z was supposed to be a comedian ..... wasn't very funny today. intentionally, anyway
Like I said Earlier, Ukraine broke the ceasefire and started massively shelling the Donbas and this was the first major escalation of an ongoing conflict, the Russia escalated further. That was just 3 years ago. This is not obscure history and this is not debatable. If you want to say massive shelling on ethnic Russians inside Ukraine not an escalation you can say that. And you can say up is down and black is white. You can be as dumb as you want to be, but it is a historical documented fact that Ukraine, most likely at the urging of the U.S., broke the ceasefire.
No it's a historical fact that Putin's Russsia aggressively invaded Ukraine, regardless of the contemptible (and baffling) attempts to spin President Zelensky & Ukraine as the bad guys.
Like I said Earlier, Ukraine broke the ceasefire and started massively shelling the Donbas and this was the first major escalation of an ongoing conflict, the Russia escalated further. That was just 3 years ago. This is not obscure history and this is not debatable. If you want to say massive shelling on ethnic Russians inside Ukraine not an escalation you can say that. And you can say up is down and black is white. You can be as dumb as you want to be, but it is a historical documented fact tha
No event that happened domestically within the official borders of Ukraine can ever be used to justified foreign intervention. You cannot "escalate" with a foreign power no matter what you do within your borders, without any limit.
Not that the "massive shelling" was as significant as you want to claim, but it doesn't matter. Zelensky could have assassinated every single pro-russia ukrainian and that still wouldn't have justified putin doing anything within the ukrainian border.
That's what "sovereign nation" means.
Now we can decide to give up on that notion. And we do when it's convenient for us. But the whole idea is that the itnernational rules are what we decide they are for own benefit, that's the whole point of the silly "international law" system. A layer of justification for western interests.
So when someone who isn't acting in our own interests breaks those laws, we have to intervene. How much and how in detail, it depends case by case.
Reagan was an actor too, not sure what your point is?
Zelensky is a true leader defending his country against Putin's aggression. Trump is coming across as a bullying robber baron and I absolutely applaud President Zelensky for standing up for himself and his country and refusing to be cowed or bullied, or go along with Trump & Vance's patronising arrogant bullshit.
Reagan wasn't known for his depth. I remember as a little kid seeing the SNL sketches lampooning him.
You should have consulted with the Democrats on Biden's campaign and given them the "so what Reagan had dementia too" quip. They didn't think of that one.
It's kind of fun so obviously seeing who the bad guys are in here.
I guess that's what others must think in the IP thread though.
Rafki, watch closely bc this is the fate of Israel. You will be cast aside when you are no longer of use.
Reagan wasn't known for his depth. I remember as a little kid seeing the SNL sketches lampooning him.
You should have consulted with the Democrats on Biden's campaign and given them the "so what Reagan had dementia too" quip. They didn't think of that one.
You mentioned Zelensky being an actor, and I'm still not sure what your point is. Actors can be Presidents as well as mayors and governors. Actors can and do enter politics in America and the UK. Why should it be different for Ukraine?
I thought Trump would continue the war given how much it benefited certain factions of the ruling class. but I wasnt really aware of how much the Ukrainians tried to help the Dems with the Russiagate hoax and peetape and all that. its clear this is personal to Trump.
regardless, this was always going to end in disaster for the Ukrainian people. never get in bed with the Americans.
Victor,
I'm not suggesting this is going to happen, but if Russia rolled into Finland 18 months from now, would your position be more of less the same as it was with Ukraine -- that is, that no countries should come to Finland's aid with money, arms, or soldiers, and that Finland should just cede whatever territory is has to cede in order to stop the fighting.
Victor,
I'm not suggesting this is going to happen, but if Russia rolled into Finland 18 months from now, would your position be more of less the same as it was with Ukraine -- that is, that no countries should come to Finland's aid with money, arms, or soldiers, and that Finland should just cede whatever territory is has to cede in order to stop the fighting.
Well that's not my position so the question is moot
You mentioned Zelensky being an actor, and I'm still not sure what your point is. Actors can be Presidents as well as mayors and governors. Actors can and do enter politics in America and the UK. Why should it be different for Ukraine?
When Russia conducted a terror-bombing campaign in Syria and the Syrian dictator conducted chemical warfare against his own citizens, Deuces McKracken called the people uncovering dead and helping civilian victims out of the rubble for Nazis.
This should tell you what his point is.
