Ukraine-Russia War Take 2
Here is what the preliminary take on the Ukraine thread disappearing is:
The site was hit with a massive spam attack where hundreds of spam threads were created. In the case where, for example, I see a single spam thread and delete it, that is called a soft delete, and mods can still see them but forum members cannot. Those deletion can be undone.
When a massive attack hits with hundreds of threads, an admin uses a different procedure where the hundreds of spam threads are merged and then hard deleted, where the threads are gone, and no note is left behind. As I have mentioned with my own experience of just soft deleting a large number of posts, sometimes a post or thread gets checked or merged accidentally and is deleted by mistake. Dealing with hundreds of spam threads takes a sledgehammer, not a scalpel.
It appears that our Ukraine thread may have gotten caught up in that recent net of spam threads. If so, it is likely gone for good. I cant say this for sure, and am awaiting comments from admins on this issue. Yes, this sucks. And hopefully there was some other software glitch that caused the disappearance, and we may recover it in the future.
But in the meantime, I have created this new Ukraine-Russia War thread to enable the conversation to continue. Obviously continuity with earlier discussions will be lost. There is no way around that. So as best as possible, let's pick up the conversation with recent events and go from there.
If you have any questions about this, please post them in the mod thread, not here. Let's keep this thread going with posts about the war, not the disappearance of the old thread.
Thanks.
It would have gone fine if it was Kamala Harris and Tim Walz in there instead. They would have looked strong without embarrassing the country.
Yes, Kamala would have looked like a strong leader like she always has. She might laugh at some point which would trigger her critics, but so what?
Weird reply , kamala trump or mr rogers are the same, nothing to do with my question.
Replace them by X Y Z.
Weird reply , kamala trump or mr rogers are the same, nothing to do with my question.
Replace them by X Y Z.
The first Black female president, which would be a historic presidency, and a leader that is actually tough, smart and reasonable is NOT the same as a Nazi/white supremacist/idiot who pretends to be a tough guy and is really a bully and the worst president the US ever had.
Zelenskyy would respect Kamala and Walz. She would look like a respectable leader on the world stage. You could see by looking at him that he thinks Trump and Vance are idiots.
The first Black female president, which would be a historic presidency, and a leader that is actually tough, smart and reasonable is NOT the same as a Nazi/white supremacist/idiot who pretends to be a tough guy and is really a bully and the worst president the US ever had.
Zelensky would respect Kamala and Walz. She would look like a respectable leader on the world stage. You could see by looking at him that he thinks Trump and Vance are idiots.
Would Kamala be able to show up sober?
You aren't a regular contributor to this forum with 7 P&S posts in the last 4 years and 4 of those posts are you throwing down the gauntlet on misinformation
This is the reality we live in where a significant portion of people are victim to misinformation. That will continue to be the reality. The misinformation blitzkrieg has proven to be incredibly effective and isn't going anywhere anytime soon. Hard censorship just breeds resentment and conspiracy. I'm also not interested in creating a "saf
I'm not asking for safe space. Some opinions need to be corrected immediately and with authority if possible. You can't talk down a constant hose of misinformation, you just become one yourself. What you have created is a safe space of misinformation and conspiracies.
I obviously meant that I quit the whole forum ofc.
Bye.
maybe never run a coup with the help of the Americans and the far right fascist groups and then burn alive a bunch of trade unionists in Odessa.
Well Gaza should never made the October 7 then huh ?
But ho no …. That’s different .
Ps: Zelensky was no where this when that suppose conspiracy thing happen ….
After further review here is how I see it.
1) Zelensky chose the wrong time to air his grievances. He failed to know his audience. If these talks happened behind closed doors I think Z would have made some good points. This particular meeting was all about signing the deal. He unintentionally came across as trying to embarrass Vance and Trump. He should have just accepted gratefully this agreement as a win and as a step toward peace. He should have gone with the program and aired his grievances behind closed doors.
2) JD Vance clearly was kissing up to Trump and I think he looked like an idiot.
3) I thought Trump was very professional for the first part of the interaction. You can tell he doesn't like Z in how quickly he turned hostile toward him.
4) The question to Z about why he doesn't wear a suit was petty.
5) Z went on Fox news afterwards and I thought represented himself well. He will need to get over the fact that Trump is willing to talk to Putin as well. Democrats were never willing to do this and would never have had a chance to end the war.
6) Both sides are overreacting to how bad the other side was. I think both sides are regretting what happened.
Kamala Harris predicts this outcome in the debate with Trump. I dunno, seems pretty competent and well spoken here.
Kamala Harris predicts this outcome in the debate with Trump. I dunno, seems pretty competent and well spoken here.
No wonder trump never wanted another debate vs her…
Donald Trump is a ****ing disgrace.
If Finland is invaded then the EU defense pact will be tested. It's far more solid than article 5 of NATO.
The awful mistake is being dependent on the usa. There's no answer to that except not being dependent on them.
I don't think people on the left are used to seeing an alpha in action. He's about to end two wars, He's stopped the floods of illegals coming over the border, He's gonna be saving the country trillions of dollars with the DOGE. How on Earth is he a disgrace?
The poor little liberals are mad because Trump was mean too Z. Guess what? Every other leader of a country now knows they better fall in line or pay the price.
I don't think people on the left are used to seeing an alpha in action. He's about to end two wars, He's stopped the floods of illegals coming over the border, He's gonna be saving the country trillions of dollars with the DOGE. How on Earth is he a disgrace?
The poor little liberals are mad because Trump was mean too Z. Guess what? Every other leader of a country now knows they better fall in line or pay the price.
Like a comedian once said, Donald Trump is a poor man's idea of how a rich man is supposed to behave. Similarly, whenever I see someone divide the world into alpha and beta males, I see someone who doesn't understand how a real man behaves and who has a somewhat primitive understanding of the world.
I don't give a **** about mean words. Today, Donald Trump and JD Vance bullied a man who has shown his bravery by staying and fighting for his country when most thought it was a matter of hours for him to be captured and his country to fall.
Ukraine has many flaws as one would expect from a country that carries the legacy of its soviet communist past. That doesn't change the fact that Ukrainians are fighting for their national independence, their political liberties and the right to determine their future, the way they- not Vladimir Putin- see fit.
People who can't recognize that fact and cannot feel instinctive sympathy towards the Ukrainians be they rightists or leftists are either sympathetic to the ever growing authoritarian menace growing around the world or are blinded by their ideological blinkers. Either way, I have neither sympathy, nor patience for their lot.
What happened today is not a coincidence and not a result of poor diplomacy by Zelensky. This has been brewing for weeks and years beforehand. Donald Trump is a deeply ignorant man who understands the world as a zero sum game - which is basically ignoring the last couple of centuries of human history and volumes upon volumes of social science literature. He's also someone who literally thinks like a pimp with the shortest of time horizons. This is why he's more concerned about shaking down allies like Canada, Ukraine and Europe, while lacking any understanding of concepts such as enlightened self-interest, strategic restrain or values like liberty and justice.
Talking about values, how corrupt can your moral compass be when you instinctively sympathize with Vladimir Putin, a former KGB agent-turned dictator who's favorite hobby is throwing dissidents out windows - if they escape his attempts at chemical or nuclear poisoning that is? But that's what Donald Trump does. He feels more affinity towards that dictator instead of the common man Zelensky who put his life on the line in order to defend the interests of his people.
And all the while Trump focuses on implementing tariffs there, getting mineral rights elsewhere or expelling millions of Palestinians from Gaza so he can turn it into the classiest most beautiful resort in the world (L-O-L), he's destroying the alliances and the world order that not only helped establish the post-war peace and prosperity we all benefited from, but benefited the US as well. In doing so, he's helping create counter-coalitions that will erode US power while making the world more unstable and more violent.
In conclusion, like said. Donald Trump is a ****ING DISGRACE!
this wasnt Donald Trump's fault. this is how the Empire treats its vassals when they no longer are of use. Trump just did it in public, which makes the liberals queasy.
The pivot to Russia and away from Europe seems really odd. Really really odd. I have seen decades of American antipathy towards Russia... even stronger antipathy than most of Europe... and now, this.
Being cooler on Europe and Nato, I kind of get, if you want to be isolationist, but the whole Russia loving thing is odd. Really, really odd.
There is a lot of world war 3 rhetoric from Trump and the Russians were on our side for world war 2 so there is that...
As Greg Popovich has pointed out, when you compare Trump to Kamala, she has eaten MANY of his type for lunch. He’s the small fry compared to some of the people she has gone after and he knows it.
Vance's agenda here was clear - what was he even doing in that room?
However, Zelensky was dumb. He should have smelled Vance's trap a mile off and swerved it. As it was, he allowed himself to get dragged down to the level of an idiot and beaten with experience.
I have been out and about. Haven't had any time to get online. Anything newsworthy happen today?
Actually he dressed himself down. If I was Trump I would have told that twerp to go put on a collard shirt.
Apparently Trump told him to wear a suit, and Zelensky refusing kind of started off everything on a bad note, and it went downhill from there.
same thing happened when he told Leon to wear a suit...
...oh wait.
After further review here is how I see it.
1) Zelensky chose the wrong time to air his grievances. He failed to know his audience. If these talks happened behind closed doors I think Z would have made some good points. This particular meeting was all about signing the deal. He unintentionally came across as trying to embarrass Vance and Trump. He should have just accepted gratefully this agreement as a win and as a step toward peace. He should have gone with the program and aired his grievances
good points, as ai said earlier, he failed to read the room, but a lot of his points were factual in a way just could have aired them out. this isn't the 60s america that si willing to beat their chest and jump into war. unfortantrely for him. but fortunate for the war.
in a vacuum I was surrpsied to hear trump again say if poland was invaded he would take action. in a vacuum ukraine is right in saying whats going to stop him but it seems poland is where the buck stops with USA not being as involved.
if what trump says is true..
i
oh and that "why dont you WeAr A SuIt" question might be the nut low of all questions I may have ever heard.
send him and whoever planted that idea question straight the the gulags of Russia or N. korea.
Like a comedian once said, Donald Trump is a poor man's idea of how a rich man is supposed to behave. Similarly, whenever I see someone divide the world into alpha and beta males, I see someone who doesn't understand how a real man behaves and who has a somewhat primitive understanding of the world.
I don't give a **** about mean words. Today, Donald Trump and JD Vance bullied a man who has shown his bravery by staying and fighting for his country when most thought it was a matter of hours for h
Zelensky wants to keep the war going so he can continue with martial law so there will be no election which he would lose.
Notice everything Trump is attempting to do is for the betterment of the people. Stopping the war is obviously good for both sides. Relocating the Gazans to a better place makes sense. Rebuilding Gaza without terrorists makes sense. Israel no longer having a homicidal neighbor would be good.
Vlad is a smart man who simply wants what is best for his country.
