Ukraine-Russia War Take 2
Here is what the preliminary take on the Ukraine thread disappearing is:
The site was hit with a massive spam attack where hundreds of spam threads were created. In the case where, for example, I see a single spam thread and delete it, that is called a soft delete, and mods can still see them but forum members cannot. Those deletion can be undone.
When a massive attack hits with hundreds of threads, an admin uses a different procedure where the hundreds of spam threads are merged and then hard deleted, where the threads are gone, and no note is left behind. As I have mentioned with my own experience of just soft deleting a large number of posts, sometimes a post or thread gets checked or merged accidentally and is deleted by mistake. Dealing with hundreds of spam threads takes a sledgehammer, not a scalpel.
It appears that our Ukraine thread may have gotten caught up in that recent net of spam threads. If so, it is likely gone for good. I cant say this for sure, and am awaiting comments from admins on this issue. Yes, this sucks. And hopefully there was some other software glitch that caused the disappearance, and we may recover it in the future.
But in the meantime, I have created this new Ukraine-Russia War thread to enable the conversation to continue. Obviously continuity with earlier discussions will be lost. There is no way around that. So as best as possible, let's pick up the conversation with recent events and go from there.
If you have any questions about this, please post them in the mod thread, not here. Let's keep this thread going with posts about the war, not the disappearance of the old thread.
Thanks.
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What was Putin's motivation for the Ukrainian/Russian war... learn it, live it.
Just watched the whole video:
~43:30 is where Zelenksy epically ****s up. Trying to directly challenge Vance in front of the press like that made no sense whatsoever. Even in private a direct approach like that is going to trigger a backlash from just about anyone. Let alone in front of the world, let alone with a guy who is so thin-skinned. At that point the choice for Vance and Trump was to either be like, "oh yeah you're totally right and we were wrong" or be humilated, and to curb stomp Zele
the ENTIRE 50 minute session needs to be watched... not merely the spicy parts.
ask the Germans how great their economy is doing after after Biden blew up the pipeline that provided gas for cheap.
I mean...how dumb and aware of its own dysfunctionality and moral dislocation does Europe feel right now? It's not talked about pretty much anywhere, but there was supposed to be some kind of economic prize at the end of all this for Germany and Europe and that is clearly not coming now. Their had to be. There has to be some rational explanation behind this apparent lunacy. The plan to get gas from the U.S., the infrastructure of which is still some time away from being at full capacity, is still there. But that's no boon to them, still a downgrade. They were supposed to be able to rebuild Ukraine, maybe get some minerals, but also access to cheap labor as Ukraine was integrated into Europe via some austerity slave status.
That's my speculation anyway, based on what I can piece together just casually following what is reported on from DAVOS. Bilderburg, G8 (now G7) summit, etc. Conspiracy gatherings of elites (I call it conspiracy, a bunch of elites planning world affairs outside of any democratic framework) release a lot of material indicating what they are going to do. The language is often coded (sometimes not even). When they say they want to develop the productivity of the Ukrainian labor force that means they want to outsource and take advantage of cheap labor. European capitalists are so sick of paying workers anything close to fairly their rage is constantly boiling over. I can't remember exactly what the average monthly wage in Ukraine was before the war but it was shockingly low.
Europe isn't going to send troops into this debacle. So now that the superpower world leader in violence says that the war was morally wrong, and Europe is not getting anything, this has to be a destabilizing event for them. We know what Europeans and their descendants in the U.S. do when things go bad. They blame any non white people who happen to be around. So we will see further gains by fascist parties in Europe, basically just a continuing of the unfolding consequences of class warfare being won by the owners of capital, but accelerated now.
Zelensky is under pressure from the neo nazis (or rightwing extremist ethno supremacists who wear nazi symbols and pay homage regularly to Ukrainian nazis if you prefer) who run the militias in Ukraine to not negotiate with Russia. He could very well get killed for entertaining any peace deal. He has to call on his acting chops to make it look like he is being as tough and stubborn as possible. His life has been openly threatened on several occasions by people whose threats are very credible when it looked like he was considering peace negotiations in the past.
I watched it too and everything seemed to be going well until Z challenged Vance. Vance looked particularly dumb in that interaction. I heard Z was told to keep his mouth shut by many different advisors and politicians. He couldn't help himself and now here we are. It's a regrettable situation. I also heard there were things that went on behind the scenes that lead to this. This was a classic know your audience and know your roll situation.
I'm curious to know what happened earlier that day behind the scenes. You could tell Z was super agitated from the start.
Zelensky is under pressure from the neo nazis (or rightwing extremist ethno supremacists who wear nazi symbols and pay homage regularly to Ukrainian nazis if you prefer) who run the militias in Ukraine to not negotiate with Russia. He could very well get killed for entertaining any peace deal. He has to call on his acting chops to make it look like he is being as tough and stubborn as possible. His life has been openly threatened on several occasions by people whose threats are very credible whe
right and the US backed those groups for years and armed them to the teeth. thats why they are in this situation.
people are praising Zelensky for having a backbone in this meeting and I can respect it to some degree. but if he really had a backbone then he would have stood up to the US in 2019 as he promised in his campaign. a campaign that he won in a landslide due to that very pledge.
Good question.
The UK has just handed Ukraine a £2.26bn loan for military supplies funded by frozen Russian assets, which is quite entertaining.
Zelensky's motorcade was greeted with cheers in Whitehall as it approached Downing Street. Zelensky will be at a summit of European leaders tomorrow and, at his request, will meet the King.
Nato chief admits to provoking Putin.
it was closed for maintenance at the time of the industrial and ecological terroristic attack. it had only been closed for a few weeks. it had been running for like a decade before that. you leave out a lot of context here.
Germany’s economic problems are much deeper than gas prices if we’re going to talk about lost context.
If this overly hyped 10 minutes is really forming your world view I'm concerned about what's going on in your real life.
Talk about an over response.
Well, you're clearly a moron with the imagination and an ability to think about consequences that's a few rungs lower than a brick shithouse's mental capacity.
So please don't be concerned about me, thanks.
I'm A fan of Zelensky and am rooting for Ukraine. But Zelensky said something in GB that's a little concerning. He said he wants to hold Putin to account and form a war crimes tribunal. I'm assuming after the war.
Well, he might be right. Putin is certainly no boy scout. But just like you can't have peace talks without Ukraine, you can't have peace talks without Russia. How are the Russians and Putin ever going to agree to real peace negotiations after hearing those types of statements.
Love you Zelensky but some things are better left unsaid.
How did someone so unqualified get to be president of Ukraine? It was the result of a series of events.
- destroy democracy in Ukraine via violent coup
- the U.S. manipulate the struggle for power via how they know best - television or media
- get a media star partner willing to opportunistically exploit their fame through what are now the ruins of free press and democracy, someone with ties to oligarchs who have the money needed
- have this pawn run on a popular agenda of peace and negotiation with Russia and then reverse 180 as if he never said he wouldn't
- profit (not you or me but weapons makers and major U.S. energy companies)
Respectfully if this was true , Finland is next ?
If Russia was such a great neighbor, why all of them try join nato so avidly?
I don’t know , maybe those that actually live near Russia knows what they are doing shrug .
Ps: Latvia and Estonia join nato in 2004 ?
Why then it was not a problem either ?
All I see is written by Putin himself , he never accepted Ukraine being a independent country shrug .
The only difference I can see with the others …and maybe more ressources to exploit .
Just watched the whole video:
~43:30 is where Zelenksy epically ****s up. Trying to directly challenge Vance in front of the press like that made no sense whatsoever. Even in private a direct approach like that is going to trigger a backlash from just about anyone. Let alone in front of the world, let alone with a guy who is so thin-skinned. At that point the choice for Vance and Trump was to either be like, "oh yeah you're totally right and we were wrong" or be humilated, and to curb stomp Zele
Agree - once he asked that question to JD that was the end of him. Completely disrespectful to Trump as well as all questions should be asked to Trump and then Trump can delegate if he needs JD or Rubio to answer.
How did someone so unqualified get to be president of Ukraine? It was the result of a series of events.
- destroy democracy in Ukraine via violent coup
- the U.S. manipulate the struggle for power via how they know best - television or media
- get a media star partner willing to opportunistically exploit their fame through what are now the ruins of free press and democracy, someone with ties to oligarchs who have the money needed
- have this pawn run on a popular agenda of peace and negotiation with
I’m sure Putin didn’t do that either .
Putin such an example for democracy .
That isn’t the point !
Zelensky wants to keep the war going so he can continue with martial law so there will be no election which he would lose.
Notice everything Trump is attempting to do is for the betterment of the people. Stopping the war is obviously good for both sides. Relocating the Gazans to a better place makes sense. Rebuilding Gaza without terrorists makes sense. Israel no longer having a homicidal neighbor would be good.
Vlad is a smart man who simply wants what is best for his country.
That the point u believe and try to make , it’s hor$e$h!t !
Zelenskyy ready to resign if Ukraine join nato
( like already many borders countries to Russia )
Is not a description of what u implying !
the reason is much less important than the length of time. theres a reason you left that part out and a reason you didnt address it.
as for gullibility, imagine thinking Ukraine did it lol
