Ukraine-Russia War Take 2
Here is what the preliminary take on the Ukraine thread disappearing is:
The site was hit with a massive spam attack where hundreds of spam threads were created. In the case where, for example, I see a single spam thread and delete it, that is called a soft delete, and mods can still see them but forum members cannot. Those deletion can be undone.
When a massive attack hits with hundreds of threads, an admin uses a different procedure where the hundreds of spam threads are merged and then hard deleted, where the threads are gone, and no note is left behind. As I have mentioned with my own experience of just soft deleting a large number of posts, sometimes a post or thread gets checked or merged accidentally and is deleted by mistake. Dealing with hundreds of spam threads takes a sledgehammer, not a scalpel.
It appears that our Ukraine thread may have gotten caught up in that recent net of spam threads. If so, it is likely gone for good. I cant say this for sure, and am awaiting comments from admins on this issue. Yes, this sucks. And hopefully there was some other software glitch that caused the disappearance, and we may recover it in the future.
But in the meantime, I have created this new Ukraine-Russia War thread to enable the conversation to continue. Obviously continuity with earlier discussions will be lost. There is no way around that. So as best as possible, let's pick up the conversation with recent events and go from there.
If you have any questions about this, please post them in the mod thread, not here. Let's keep this thread going with posts about the war, not the disappearance of the old thread.
Thanks.
I know that Americans were arrested. but again, they didnt have roaming gangs of slave catchers pursuing every draft age man in the country. and I am pretty sure most of those the draft evaders in the US were put in jail and not sent to the front lines to die so the West can futilely try to dismantle Russia.
a leopard cant change its spots so this is all the rulers can do. I am just pointing out how depraved and murderous Western liberal values are.
Hi Victor. Did you see the videos of the Russians sending their injured soldiers into battle with crutches? Of course not.
You know that Russia pays hundreds of millions of dollars to media influencers to spread Russian propaganda right?
How much does Putin pay you?
"Everything I dont like is Russian propaganda: a guide to the Democratic Party principles by Rachel Maddow."
why do you think I would support Russia doing that? I am the guy who wants the war to end.
This is exactly where we are at now. A lot of speculation that this was an orchestrated attack on Zelenskyy. The petty jibes at the start of the meeting, followed by MTG’s BF’s further attempt, and then JD Vance’s unprofessional outburst is a good amount of evidence that this was a setup. I don’t think any VP would be so unprofessional unless he was directly told to be so.
I agree that this was theater from Trump's perspective and not a serious attempt at diplomacy.
Maybe it was theater from Zelensky's perspective as well, but if definitely seemed like theater from Trump and Vance.
https://youtube.com/shorts/XjfS6QQ2WPo?s...
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https://youtube.com/shorts/XjfS6QQ2WPo?s...
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Russia is sending cripples to battle.
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I agree that this was theater from Trump's perspective and not a serious attempt at diplomacy.
Of course it was, because they don't have a minerals deal or a peace deal ready to ink as promised and they somehow had to cover their own incompetence. Trump is a former reality-TV star, that's all. Remember him going to meet Kim Jong Un and getting nothing out of it at all because he'd got nothing prepped. With him it's just performance and social-media likes and he hasn't got a clue.
I agree that this was theater from Trump's perspective and not a serious attempt at diplomacy.
Maybe it was theater from Zlensky's perspective as well, but if definitely seemed like theater from Trump and Vance.
My understanding is Trump didn't want to do the meeting at all. He didn't even want Zelensky to come to the US. He wanted him to sign the mineral deal with Rubio on the other side of the Atlantic Ocean, and claim victory to the American people. Zelensky was the one who insisted on coming to the US and try to do a press tour.
Anyways, I was reading some Twitter and came across an interesting theory that makes sense. The theory basically goes something like this. Trump has no interest in Ukraine or the Ukraine war. He just wanted to take credit for a peace treaty, and is indifferent towards the terms. However, someone else in his circle convinced him to propose the mineral deal to get him personally invested, and it worked.
However Zelensky flat out doesn't want to do the mineral deal, which is why we are at where we are. But it is too late, as Trump is personally invested in doing it and isn't inclined to back down on this. And so we have the current **** show.
Lindsey Graham's (who definitely wants to keep supplying Ukraine and keep the war going) response of getting very mad at Zelensky I think shows he was involved in convincing Trump to do the mineral deal to get him invested in the Ukraine war. And Zelensky refusing to do it could spectacularly backfire and get Trump to just completely abandon Ukraine, which is the opposite of what Graham wanted.
this is getting interesting...
they are beginning to fall like dominoes... and Britannia is on the wrong side of it.
this war is DONE!
they are beginning to fall like dominoes... and Britannia is on the wrong side of it.
this war is DONE!
. Fico's government has stopped military aid to Ukraine, moved to take greater control of the media, and abolished the Special Prosecutor's Office that dealt with corruption, which sparked mass protests. On 15 May 2024, Fico was hospitalized after an attempted assassination by an ex-admirer. Following attempts to pressure Ukraine into keeping Russian natural gas flowing into Slovakia, and meeting with Russian president Vladimir Putin, mass protests calling for Fico's resignation or ouster arose in January 2025.
Nobody cares what Fico or Orban or any other Putin lickspittle thinks.
they are beginning to fall like dominoes... and Britannia is on the wrong side of it.
this war is DONE!
Your legions would have been up in arns if any other president cozied up to putin but now that your traitorous idiot emperor bows down to a fellow dictator, you guys get giddy.
Zelensky announced they are signing the mineral deal.
Just a reminder, the mineral deal is a nothing burger. The $500 billion number Trump threw out is complete nonsense. Ukraine doesn’t even have much minerals.
Zelensky knows it is all nonsense, but he is too principled for his own good. He needs to just play the game like Bibi does.
The only point of the mineral deal is to get Trump invested in Ukraine and give him another meaningless W for his fans.
I know that Americans were arrested. but again, they didnt have roaming gangs of slave catchers pursuing every draft age man in the country. and I am pretty sure most of those the draft evaders in the US were put in jail and not sent to the front lines to die so the West can futilely try to dismantle Russia.
a leopard cant change its spots so this is all the rulers can do. I am just pointing out how depraved and murderous Western liberal values are.
there is no mistery
I have no clue which post you are referring to.
Nice to see you back B, even if you're just passing through, hope to see more of your contributions itt at a future date.
Nice to see you too. Considering the reason I'm back is due to that travesty at the White House and it will take more events like that to get me to come back, I hope to not be contributing more at a future date. I will always be glad to see you and some others though.
What the UN wanted?
Is everything a r-tarded conspiracy now but somehow semiliterate people eat it all up anyway?
Typically when this bit of Russian propaganda is mentioned they don't include the part where Finland and Norway joined Nato due to Russia's unprovoked imperialist invasion, and then Putin claimed not to care that his border with NATO had doubled since it completely invalidates their own argument. Poor editing on this propagandist's part I suppose.
I dont think the USA aka the Great Satan is a model that should be followed.
regardless, I dont remember reading about roaming bands of slave catchers forcibly and abusively Shanghaing tons of men off the streets during Vietnam or whenever. if you have some literature, I would love to read it.
Research the Shtrafbat. When asked what a leftist would do in the event that they were invaded you gave the USSR's defense against Nazi Germany as an example of a virtuous way of fighting. You'll also end up learning about the USSR's blocking units which you denied the existance of.
I dont know man, I advocated for a ceasefire and finding a diplomatic solution to this conflict for years. apparently they were close to a ceasefire in April of 2022. later I remember some Democrats signed a letter saying to do diplomacy and were blasted by everyone and retracted (typical cowards) https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022...
at this point, it doesnt look like Russia is going to stop until they take what they want.
They weren't very close. There's a lot of literature out now which explains how far off they were. It also explains that the peace deal would be a death sentence to Ukraine which is why they didn't sign it.
I'm willing to bet a lot of money that this war ends before Russia is able to take over all of Ukraine.
but Ukraine should not have decided to side with the West and set themselves up as a proxy for the USA to fight Russia. they should have done what Zelensky was elected on promises to do, which is find an end to the civil war and try to get along with USA and Russia.
if anything, this is a lesson to any other country that does business with the USA in this fashion. they will be used and spit out and not even the pets will be spared.
what can they do now? no idea, it looks pretty bleak.
Ukraine is not a proxy. The help from USA came after Russia invaded.
Ukraine is a sovereign nation, this isn't a civil war.
I agree that this was theater from Trump's perspective and not a serious attempt at diplomacy.
Maybe it was theater from Zlensky's perspective as well, but if definitely seemed like theater from Trump and Vance.
It was theater from Zelenskyy as well, although in a very different way. This mineral deal was basically Zelenskyy signing over nothing and getting nothing in return. He was clearly in the White House trying to get support for the war, as any good leader would be doing.
It's likely a real video, although who knows what it is a video of. For all we know this is one of the Russian street raids, or it could even be a Ukrainian in the occupied territory; when they don't respond to military summons they are arrested, beaten, and disappeared. This type of lie would be par for the course for this propagandist. The first time Victor posted him this propagandist was saying that a recent Ukrainian court case had proven that "Euromaidan snipers" had instigated the shootings at the Euromaidan. After digging into the court case I discovered that actually what happened was that the court proved that 40 out of 48 protestors on that day were murdered by Yanukovych's police through tracing bullets. This propagandist was claiming that not being able to trace the bullets for the remaining 8 was proof that his "Euromaidan snipers" conspiracy was true. So he has a history of taking truth and warping it be a lie in his pursuit of helping Russia.
In the event that it is really what he is claiming then it's important to remember that the videos of the mass executions, extrajudicial killings, systematic torture, castrations, gang rapes, women being raped in front of families, people having their organs harvested etc are too horrific to post here, and that is why Ukraine is fighting for their freedom. Not to mention the things which aren't too horrific to post but this thread often skips over anyways for some reason: mass deportations, brainwashing, starvation, economic destruction, erasing of Ukrainian culture, and of course this exact video except of Russians doing it to Russians or Ukrainians (if that's not what it is anyways). If Russia ended the war forced conscription would end on Ukraine's part and although Russia would still continue their brainwashing campaign to forcibly conscript that way at least Russia would stop using methods like the one shown in the video and Ukraine would not need to worry about these horrific things.
My understanding is Trump didn't want to do the meeting at all. He didn't even want Zelensky to come to the US. He wanted him to sign the mineral deal with Rubio on the other side of the Atlantic Ocean, and claim victory to the American people. Zelensky was the one who insisted on coming to the US and try to do a press tour.
Anyways, I was reading some Twitter and came across an interesting theory that makes sense. The theory basically goes something like this. Trump has no interest in Ukr
Trump is known for theatrics, so it would be surprising if he didn't want to do the meeting. Also Zelenskyy being able to force Trump to do a public meeting doesn't seem likely either. I suppose it's possible though.
Trump's interest in Ukraine is in the peace treaty as you mentioned. He seems to be advocating for a Nobel Peace Prize for himself. Unfortunately ending the war and having a good end to the war are not the same as has been explained numerous times ITT. Rubio's comments that "Peace comes first then guarantees" is just nonsense and even Rubio knows it, you can see how dead inside he is. So while Trump's goal is to get a peace deal no matter what the deal actually entails, he is at odds with Zelenskyy who is concerned with getting a peace deal that prevents Russia from invading again.
I have even heard that Zelenskyy suggested the peace deal and was then blindsided when Trump replied with "sounds good, give me half of everything you have." They met in the middle which was each giving each other nothing but Trump getting a political win out of it.
Graham wants aid to Ukraine but he either is worried about his own position first, or he knows how to play the game with Trump. He did this exact same thing with the aid package that MAGA held up despite bilateral support for it. I don't think his response proves anything really.
Zelensky announced they are signing the mineral deal.
Just a reminder, the mineral deal is a nothing burger. The $500 billion number Trump threw out is complete nonsense. Ukraine doesn’t even have much minerals.
Zelensky knows it is all nonsense, but he is too principled for his own good. He needs to just play the game like Bibi does.
The only point of the mineral deal is to get Trump invested in Ukraine and give him another meaningless W for his fans.
I don't think it was Zelenskyy's principles that got in the way here. He was ambushed and blindsided. They were both doing what they were there to do. JD Vance picked a fight, he either has no control over his temper or this was a set up. Zelenskyy has no problems condemning Biden for sending aid and thanking Trump for stopping aid if it will help Ukraine, the problem was the tone and ambush from Vance.
slovenia has spoken
there is no mistery
it seems to be a mystery to you, and other war supporting liberals, that a draft is not synonymous with roving bands of slave catchers grabbing every man they see and sending them to a brutal death after extorting them and their family of all their money.
however, even if many liberals did admit what their lying eyes witnessed, then they would still support it bc Western civilization loves war and conquest.
I just want to know how Israel plays into Victor's thinking as they are clearly a Russian ally and it is reciprocal as I long have argued - time to drop one Victor which is it going to be - Russia or Israel?
I just want to know how Israel plays into Victor's thinking as they are clearly a Russian ally and it is reciprocal as I long have argued - time to drop one Victor which is it going to be - Russia or Hamas?
I dont support Russia. Read what I write and not what the endless war supporting liberals write about me.
I don't think it was Zelenskyy's principles that got in the way here. He was ambushed and blindsided. They were both doing what they were there to do. JD Vance picked a fight, he either has no control over his temper or this was a set up. Zelenskyy has no problems condemning Biden for sending aid and thanking Trump for stopping aid if it will help Ukraine, the problem was the tone and ambush from Vance.
Nah. That is just liberal anti-Trump nonsense. This is basically arguing Trump and Vance were playing super 4D chess, when in reality they were probably just playing checkers, and were surprised as everyone else things went as they did.
Remember, it was 45 minutes into a meeting which was almost over. You really think Vance and Trump sat 45 minutes through a mostly congenial meeting, and then on some sort of cue Vance made a comment they knew would provoke Zelensky, hence laying the trap? Nah. I dont think Vance or Trump had a clue Zelensky would respond like he did and things would escalate like that. If they were going to "lay a trap" they certainly wouldn't have waited 45 minutes to spring it.
