Ukraine-Russia War Take 2
Here is what the preliminary take on the Ukraine thread disappearing is:
The site was hit with a massive spam attack where hundreds of spam threads were created. In the case where, for example, I see a single spam thread and delete it, that is called a soft delete, and mods can still see them but forum members cannot. Those deletion can be undone.
When a massive attack hits with hundreds of threads, an admin uses a different procedure where the hundreds of spam threads are merged and then hard deleted, where the threads are gone, and no note is left behind. As I have mentioned with my own experience of just soft deleting a large number of posts, sometimes a post or thread gets checked or merged accidentally and is deleted by mistake. Dealing with hundreds of spam threads takes a sledgehammer, not a scalpel.
It appears that our Ukraine thread may have gotten caught up in that recent net of spam threads. If so, it is likely gone for good. I cant say this for sure, and am awaiting comments from admins on this issue. Yes, this sucks. And hopefully there was some other software glitch that caused the disappearance, and we may recover it in the future.
But in the meantime, I have created this new Ukraine-Russia War thread to enable the conversation to continue. Obviously continuity with earlier discussions will be lost. There is no way around that. So as best as possible, let's pick up the conversation with recent events and go from there.
If you have any questions about this, please post them in the mod thread, not here. Let's keep this thread going with posts about the war, not the disappearance of the old thread.
Thanks.
'Slovakia demands' is quite funny. You can picture it written large on walls, or embroidered on samplers and framed in the living room of many a loyal Slovakian onion-farm home. 'Slovakia Demands!'
they, like each other country in the EU, have veto power.
in the EC (European council) mentioned at point 5) by Slovakia, they vote by unanimity on foreign policy matters.
so as funny as it can look like, Slovakia demands are either met, or money has to be paid to convince them otherwise (like we did with Hungary several times in the last 3 years to pass sanctions to Russia)
liberals: if I dont like it then its fake
bruv I believe my lying eyes even though I shouldnt in this world.
I’m asking how you know is real .
I’m not a liberal thinking everything I disagree it’s fake …
Quite the contrary .
But I always try find more then 1 sources .
Your not that type .
I think u do a lot of projection tho !
How many times you used that comeback for yourself 0o…
But hey Facebook and Twitter !
It’s true man I’m telling you -> pb2000 says hi
I just want to know how Israel plays into Victor's thinking as they are clearly a Russian ally and it is reciprocal as I long have argued - time to drop one Victor which is it going to be - Russia or Hamas?
LOL Israel is a Russian ally. That is just stupid right wing antisemitism. Israel is just playing its role as a loyal US vassal. You think Israel would have voted against the EU resolution if the US hadn't? Trump is very petty, and the Netenyahu govt isn't really in a position to risk upsetting him.
In an ideal world I think the Netanyahu govt would like Russia to re-align with them in the ME against Iran (Russia has consistently aligned with Iran), but there is no indication so far Russia has any intention of doing so, regardless of how Israel votes in the UN.
I have no clue which post you are referring to.
Nice to see you too. Considering the reason I'm back is due to that travesty at the White House and it will take more events like that to get me to come back, I hope to not be contributing more at a future date. I will always be glad to see you and some others though.
Typically when this bit of Russian propaganda is mentioned they don't include the part where Finland and Norway joined Nato due to Russia's unprovoked imperialist invasion, and then Pu
Exactly .
they, like each other country in the EU, have veto power.
in the EC (European council) mentioned at point 5) by Slovakia, they vote by unanimity on foreign policy matters.
so as funny as it can look like, Slovakia demands are either met, or money has to be paid to convince them otherwise (like we did with Hungary several times in the last 3 years to pass sanctions to Russia)
It seems from their position they are upset they are paying more for the same Russian natural gas, because it is being smuggled through Russian black fleet ships into Europe, instead of through pipelines. As you said, maybe they just want to be bribed for their trouble.
I’m asking how you know is real .
I’m not a liberal thinking everything I disagree it’s fake …
Quite the contrary .
But I always try find more then 1 sources .
Your not that type .
I think u do a lot of projection tho !
How many times you used that comeback for yourself 0o…
But hey Facebook and Twitter !
It’s true man I’m telling you -> pb2000 says hi
I use that come back bc it always applies to liberals. If it doesn't fit your worldview, then the only response is to claim it's fake. Maybe change your worldview to understand why these things are happening and what influences are causing them.
I use that come back bc it always applies to liberals. If it doesn't fit your worldview, then the only response is to claim it's fake. Maybe change your worldview to understand why these things are happening and what influences are causing them.
Nah I never use that line .
I’m just not a fan of jumping on one source I can find on a Twitter account with no context or reliability at all of an event and claim it’s the truth while rejecting all the official sources says the opposites .
But you do love it and many of your « followers » like PB2000 too.
Keep at it . But opinions isn’t facts .
Eye of the beholder .
Nah I never use that line .
I’m just not a fan of jumping on one source I can find on a Twitter account with no context or reliability at all of an event and claim it’s the truth while rejecting all the official sources says the opposites .
But you do love it and many of your « followers » like PB2000 too.
Keep at it . But opinions isn’t facts .
Eye of the beholder .
Im curious what facts you are disputing from the video? did the TCC not just forcibly conscript a man off the street to be sent to his death and leave his dog outside to likely die?
you guys are always changing the subject or generalizing. lets talk about specifics here.
Nah. That is just liberal anti-Trump nonsense. This is basically arguing Trump and Vance were playing super 4D chess, when in reality they were probably just playing checkers, and were surprised as everyone else things went as they did.
Lol no. Here is what you're replying to: "JD Vance picked a fight, he either has no control over his temper or this was a set up", you are agreeing with me that Vance has no control over his temper and picked a fight. Clearly he has permission from Trump to do so.
Remember, it was 45 minutes into a meeting which was almost over. You really think Vance and Trump sat 45 minutes through a mostly congenial meeting, and then on some sort of cue Vance made a comment they knew would provoke Zelensky, hence laying the trap? Nah. I dont think Vance or Trump had a clue Zelensky would respond like he did and things would escalate like that. If they were going to "lay a trap" they certainly wouldn't have waited 45 minutes to spring it.
I saw several provocations since the very beginning of the meeting. Zelenskyy never really took the bait, so either Vance forced it or Vance just got furious over pretty much nothing and lashed out. You seem to agree with me, but for seem reason you're saying I'm repeating "liber anti-Trump nonsense".
Zelenskyy responded the way he always responds to that stuff, it doesn't even take a checkers player to know what he would say. It's shocking Zelenskyy kept his cool as much as he did.
Do you disagree with any of my predictions from early November? Do you think that Trump is currently blaming Zelenskyy for there not being peace?
Putin and Ukraine will not be able to work it out because Putin will offer capitulation terms.
Putin and Trump will unleash an absurd amount of propaganda saying that all holdups over the peace deal are due to Ukraine, not Putin.
Trump will try to sell the image that Putin is dealing in earnest and if there's not enough outrage he will just let Putin do whatever he wishes. Since Putin has no desire for peace this means he continues attacking. If there is enough outrage then Trump will have to eith
seen so many videos of this kind of thing. this is rageworthy indeed, as are all of these videos, but the thing that stuck with me in this particular video is that they just left the poor dog to die as well. these are Western values.
All draft dodgers are criminals and cowards. Their neighbors are in the front fighting and they're home walking their fogs.
Cowards should be executed. And their dogs left to die.
All draft dodgers are criminals and cowards. Their neighbors are in the front fighting and they're home walking their fogs.
Cowards should be executed. And their dogs left to die.
lol at the idea that the state owns you.
but people who disagree with a country war effort should leave the country for good (which they can't do if male in Ukraine, a profound violation of human rights).
All draft dodgers are criminals and cowards. Their neighbors are in the front fighting and they're home walking their fogs.
Cowards should be executed. And their dogs left to die.
thank you for being an honest liberal. I have been saying for years that this is what liberals think and faced many bans for it.
All draft dodgers are criminals and cowards. Their neighbors are in the front fighting and they're home walking their fogs.
Cowards should be executed. And their dogs left to die.
You sound like a super right wing 80 year old, still pissed off about hippies and Bill Clinton's draft dodging.
Im curious what facts you are disputing from the video? did the TCC not just forcibly conscript a man off the street to be sent to his death and leave his dog outside to likely die?
you guys are always changing the subject or generalizing. lets talk about specifics here.
I mentioned specifics and you ignored them.
The only reason to believe this took place in Ukrainian-controlled territory is because a known Russian propagandist with a history of extreme dishonesty claims so. This could just as easily be footage from Russia or Russian-occupied Ukraine. We know this happens on both sides.
One side does this to fight against mass executions, extrajudicial killings, systematic torture, castrations, gang rapes, women being raped in front of families, people having their organs harvested, mass deportations, brainwashing, starvation, economic destruction, erasing of Ukrainian culture, and this type of treatment for an occupying country (which once again this video might actually be footage of that). One side conscripts in this manner in order to perpetuate these atrocities and they also forcibly conscript in other devious ways.
These are all facts.
All draft dodgers are criminals and cowards. Their neighbors are in the front fighting and they're home walking their fogs.
Cowards should be executed. And their dogs left to die.
Unlike Russia, where deserters are often executed or imprisoned, Ukraine still has legal processes and recognizes individual rights.
lol at the idea that the state owns you.
but people who disagree with a country war effort should leave the country for good (which they can't do if male in Ukraine, a profound violation of human rights).
Russia has passed a lot of laws to this effect as well, and they are not under martial law due to an invading force threatening their existence, they are the invading force and yet they impose even harsher sentences on people who try to avoid their illegal invasion.
thank you for being an honest liberal. I have been saying for years that this is what liberals think and faced many bans for it.
I don't recall you ever facing a ban for anything like this. He does not speak for the majority of the western world. If you’re looking for an example of mass forced conscription, then your own example of how the left should respond to an existential threat, USSR’s defense against Nazi Germany, is one of the worst cases of this type of thing ever recorded. Stalin’s penal battalions and mass executions of retreating soldiers were brutal beyond comparison to anything we've seen from Ukraine, although Russia is currently using the same tactics even if not at the same scale.
Lol no. Here is what you're replying to: "JD Vance picked a fight, he either has no control over his temper or this was a set up", you are agreeing with me that Vance has no control over his temper and picked a fight. Clearly he has permission from Trump to do so.
I saw several provocations since the very beginning of the meeting. Zelenskyy never really took the bait, so either Vance forced it or Vance just got furious over pretty much nothing and lashed out. You seem to agree with me, but for se
I dont disagree with your predictions. Trump is obviously trying to make Zelensky a scapegoat, while Putin has made no reasonable concessions to end the war AFAIK.
My argument is you are giving Trump and Vance way too much credit IMO. There is no way they go 45 minutes into a meeting they were planning to sabotage anyways. I dont think anyone would do that.
It makes total sense if they were hoping Zelenskyy would screw up. After MTG's BF failed to get a rise out of him they didn't have much of a choice.
But if you really think that's too far fetched, then you agree with the first part of the statement: JD Vance has no control over his temper and they knew they were going to make him a scapegoat anyways, so it wasn't orchestrated but it was well within their chosen framework. It's not really that important to my argument.
What Rubin says now....
What Rubio said then..... The Budapest Memorandum
I love when he say trump makes deals all the time , he knows what’s his doing .
Just the concept of trump last deal agreement of trades between US, Mexico and Canada and says tariffs are needed because the U.S. gets screwed ….
Who made that last deal exactly and called it the greatest trade deal ever made ?
Ah yes it’s trump !
And seeing how bad a deal it’s going. For Ukraine , no wonder Zelenskyy is pissed and probably afraid of that « great trump deal « in the making .
Im curious what facts you are disputing from the video? did the TCC not just forcibly conscript a man off the street to be sent to his death and leave his dog outside to likely die?
you guys are always changing the subject or generalizing. lets talk about specifics here.
Bluegrass already answer good enough .
I won’t forward previous discussion either .
"Everything I dont like is Russian propaganda: a guide to the Democratic Party principles by Rachel Maddow."
why do you think I would support Russia doing that? I am the guy who wants the war to end.
Her greatest hit so far in my opinion was the fear mongering over Russia planning to take out the U.S. electrical grid. She had a map and graphics and everything. She is Glenn Beck with teats now.
seen so many videos of this kind of thing. this is rageworthy indeed, as are all of these videos, but the thing that stuck with me in this particular video is that they just left the poor dog to die as well. these are Western values.
The majority here support the idea of "to the last Ukrainian", right? Do you guys smile like Mitch McConnel when you see a video like this?
I don't know how I would feel about people from another country saying "to the last American" as I see my friends and countrymen fed into a meat grinder for the privilege of "weakening" the enemy of the person saying that. Wait, yeah I do. I know exactly how I would feel about that.
Remember when one of the largest natural gas companies in Ukraine, Burisma, hired some crackhead named Hunter Biden at 88k a month? when the average monthly salary of a Ukrainian was what? $300?
Yeah. That was awesome.
A lot of what people are talking about is Trump, Zelensky, Russia, minerals, NATO etc. But this is happening because of Clinton and Biden. This is all Russiagate blowback, and those who cannot accept the truth about Russiagate, meaning the total falseness of it and who did it and why. will never have any understanding of what is going on now - absolutely none.
The majority here support the idea of "to the last Ukrainian", right? Do you guys smile like Mitch McConnel when you see a video like this?
I don't know how I would feel about people from another country saying "to the last American" as I see my friends and countrymen fed into a meat grinder for the privilege of "weakening" the enemy of the person saying that. Wait, yeah I do. I know exactly how I would feel about that.
ofc they support this. its like a sports game to them. do they care if the Quarterback blows his knee out and cant walk? do they care if the Linebacker destroys his brain and kills himself at 48? none of them are real people to liberals. what matters is winning the game so they can brag about beating [strike]Michigan[/strike] Russia
ofc they support this. its like a sports game to them. do they care if the Quarterback blows his knee out and cant walk? do they care if the Linebacker destroys his brain and kills himself at 48? none of them are real people to liberals. what matters is winning the game so they can brag about beating [strike]Michigan[/strike] Russia
Seems like a drastic change of subject to a huge generalization (which is also completely false).
lol at the idea that the state owns you.
but people who disagree with a country war effort should leave the country for good (which they can't do if male in Ukraine, a profound violation of human rights).
I don't really think that people should be executed. lol.
But it's Victor. He's been a broken record for 3 years straight now.
You can only fight your opponents by punching back. Hard.
None of this liberal wishy washy weak, ' oh, fact check'
But Ukraine has military conscription of men starting at age 25.
Ukraine is currently under martial law.
Men between the ages of 18 to 60 aren't allowed to leave the country.
So yes, I do believe that men who neglect to report for duty are cowards and, according to Ukrainian martial law. Criminals.
We all know very well that Russia has also imposed A draft, and has been taking people off the streets, going to work places and, we know very well, even inlisting convicts from prison.
But of course, trying to make a reasonable argument, and pointing all that out, with someone like Victor, is like banging your head against a wall.
Russia is spreading this type of story to rev up the hate against Ukraine
and Victor, and people like him, swallow it up, because that's what they do.
