Superuser Caught on GGPoker - "MoneyTaker69" Thread
User "MoneyTaker69" is alleged to be superusing on GG Poker.
In December, Moneytaker won at 90bb/100 on GG Poker in 8,900 hands playing 53% VPIP. Soon after, he binked a $150 Sunday MTT for $47,586 while playing an extremely volatile strategy, which aroused a lot of suspicion. GG Poker has acknowledged the situation privately and is preparing to address it, but it's important for the public to know immediately due to the significance of superusing.
The Results
The following results graph comes from Smarthand, a site that tracks online poker results. MoneyTaker won at 90bb/100 in December playing 53/17.
Typically, a player with this VPIP/PFR ratio would be in the -50bb/100 range. Even if we were impossibly generous and said he was breakeven, this run would be a statical anomaly. For a -50bb recreational? Impossible.
Here is a primedope simulation of the probability of a breakeven player having this run.
The following is a simulation of possible runs for a player with a given winrate using primedope's variance calculator. The light blue line at the top of the graph represents the "Best" run, which is the luckiest run a person could have in 1,000 trials.
This is a -50bb player playing 9000 hands. Their luckiest run is around -10 buyins. Mokeytaker won 77 buy-ins.
Additionally, MoneyTaker won a $150 GG Masters Sunday MTT, which is a big open field tournament. This makes the possibility of chip dumping or targeting specific players with a virus much less likely.
The Hands
The following hands were collected by various users as examples of likely foul play.
How is he cheating?
Based off his play, the most natural explanation is that he can see the cards. He rarely puts in money significantly behind or calls the river with the worst hand. Also, his winrate is so high that RTA could not possibly explain it.
It's unclear how he's able to see others' cards, and it's possible he's not the only one exploiting a glitch in the system. A post on 2+2 highlighted a group of suspicious accounts that played for brief stints and won for >30bb/100, which is particularly difficult on GG due to their rake structure.
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showp...
There is no clear evidence that the players highlighted in the above post are superusing, but it's not unreasonable to suspect that this could be a larger issue at scale if done by hackers that want to be less obvious than running >50% VPIP.
Hacker Group
"MoneyTaker" is a hacker group. It's unclear if this account is in any way associated with them or if it's just incidental, but worth mentioning.
What's Next?
As a community, we await GG Poker's response. I'm confident they'll do the right thing and share everything they know about this incident shortly.
I got a message from GG saying: As we usher in the new year, we are delighted to offer you the opportunity to revamp your nickname.
I changed my nickname to moneytaker + some number(s)
then opened some tables for fun #insert paranoia
E: i rarely every play there just had some funds from long time ago and thought this is fun thing to do.
I changed my nickname to moneytaker + some number(s)
then opened some tables for fun #insert paranoia
E: i rarely every play there just had some funds from long time ago and thought this is fun thing to do.
Haha sweet. I won't hold it against. Get any takers? lol
I myself have played GG in the past for a short period. Tried and left a number of sites over the years. For me it's Pokerstars for the win as a main site. Which I really only need one.
Cheers!!!
Did Jason Koon make a statement about this? Why does GG even have a "security and game integrity" group. Just a play to the gallery..
Did Jason Koon make a statement about this? Why does GG even have a "security and game integrity" group. Just a play to the gallery..
zero out of his twitter or dnegs twitter as well.
If GG was up and up about it. A statement regarding this should have popped up in the accounts home language at log in. (I am assuming this did not happen)
if other sites can spam us on client start up , a message about this should easily be done
DNegs is one thing, but hes mainly just a face of the company, hes not there to deal with every single technical issue, security, policies about everything. He deserves criticism but I think Koon is on another level of responsibility here.
Koon is literally signed on for the sole purpose of giving GG an image of a company that holds security, fairness and game integrity to high standards. Its just a joke if he and the rest of the "Poker Integrity Council" dont comment on this. I would say its on par with DNegs infamous "more rake is better" bs in terms of being a pathetic sellout.
yeah i think this gg cheating councel needs its own thread, they do nothing, fedor busy flirting on game of gold, jason got a baby, they all too rich to care, we need a proper councel, not some known pros just because they are well known and win at poker, doesn't auto make them good at anything to do with looking into cheats/scandals
i mean even bonomo came in here asking what the actual exploit was even though gg made a statement, which he clearly didn't read.... i dont think he is part of this poker integrity councel but yeah thats just some example of a known pro not even knowing whats going on with the exploit because he didnt even bother reading the gg statement
Im not sure if Eddie guy is still in the thread, but when he said he talked to people at GG about security issues, who did he talk to? Was that the security council? Because the way they handled his concerns seemed extremely concerning and lackadaisical.
no my understanding was eddie contacted gg security direct by email.
its like have they got the old luna developers coding this site? would make sense, feels like im playing on a DEX when on there now
i mean even bonomo came in here asking what the actual exploit was even though gg made a statement, which he clearly didn't read.... i dont think he is part of this poker integrity councel but yeah thats just some example of a known pro not even knowing whats going on with the exploit because he didnt even bother reading the gg statement
Would it matter if he read it? Honest question because I've seen his Twitter feed. Not a very rational or deep thinking guy when it comes to a lot of things.
Cheers!!!
no my understanding was eddie contacted gg security direct by email.
its like have they got the old luna developers coding this site? would make sense, feels like im playing on a DEX when on there now
Im pretty sure he said he had video meetings with them, but that they dismissed his concerns about data leaking to the client.
Read this page from them if you want a good laugh. How has the PIC not issued a statment about this case? Wait, how have they not done ANYTHING since this was announced?
I'm not fully caught up with the thread yet, but I just wanted to point out one thing: if this means that GG loses its dominant market position, it was likely the best thing that could happen to online poker.
When leaderboard tv grinders bet 1bb instead of check it’s because it scores more points towards leaderboard rather than cheating. Common strat amongst the NLH leaderboard regs too fyi
How do you know this? Is there a section on the site that shows how the leader board is calculated based on betting?
there are way more recreationals than regular poker player (even though regs make up for more volume of course) and these recretionals dont necessarily follow big poker news. Even if they are following doug polk or whatever.
I'm not fully caught up with the thread yet, but I just wanted to point out one thing: if this means that GG loses its dominant market position, it was likely the best thing that could happen to online poker.
So although i personally agree 100% with this statement I doubt this will happen
I do not think GG will lose a lot of players because of this scandal, they have succeeded globally and are very big in the Asian market. I see no reason to withdraw my money for now.
If you are playing micro/low stakes there is no reason to leave unless rake is making it too hard for you. For some people GG is the only option, so they will keep playing there.
Its too hard to be a MTT grinder nowadays without using GG. I don't think the other rooms will be able to find a way to surpass them in trafic. Too much rakeback destroys the ecosystem and makes everything reg heavy, no one in the industry has the incentive to make the life of the regs easier.
GG is a solid proof that making decisions that hurts the regulars is +EV. And thats what the competitors in the industry will keep doing.
Year by year the industry will make it harder for regs until there is very little of them (only the most stupid try hard idiots that will chase the "poker dream" paying 17BB/100 of rake).
And guess what... Poker will survive without regs, fishes will be there forever swimming in the pond. They don't need the money they deposit, its all fine.
just went to a a live tournament where 100% of players play on GGPoker
not even one knew about this case
most players just dont read any news
I think 10% knows, if GG didnt say anything probably 0.001% would know about it
just went to a a live tournament where 100% of players play on GGPoker
not even one knew about this case
most players just dont read any news
I think 10% knows, if GG didnt say anything probably 0.001% would know about it
This is what I expected.
Most recs, don't read books, don't watch video's, don't read poker news etc etc.
When leaderboard tv grinders bet 1bb instead of check it’s because it scores more points towards leaderboard rather than cheating. Common strat amongst the NLH leaderboard regs too fyi
Where you you get this information from?
FWIW I played around 100k hands of midstakes on GG last year and I don't ever remember noticing any high volume regs donking 1bb on a regular basis.
The fact that you can easily cheat on GG with little to no repercussions is probably a selling point in the Chinese market.
If you are playing micro/low stakes there is no reason to leave unless rake is making it too hard for you. For some people GG is the only option, so they will keep playing there.
Its too hard to be a MTT grinder nowadays without using GG. I don't think the other rooms will be able to find a way to surpass them in trafic. Too much rakeback destroys the ecosystem and makes everything reg heavy, no one in the industry has the incentive to make the life of the regs easier.
GG is a solid proof that
And once all the regs disappear it become lucrative for regs again
just went to a a live tournament where 100% of players play on GGPoker
not even one knew about this case
most players just dont read any news
I think 10% knows, if GG didnt say anything probably 0.001% would know about it
10 years ago twoplustwo was at its peak and it was the centre of my universe (had a different screen name then). I thought every poker player in the world (rec or reg) was on it. Sat down in the WSOP main around then and mentioned something about twoplustwo and not a single player at the table had even heard of it. I was gobsmacked.
Same applies with this i assume.
10 years ago twoplustwo was at its peak and it was the centre of my universe (had a different screen name then). I thought every poker player in the world (rec or reg) was on it. Sat down in the WSOP main around then and mentioned something about twoplustwo and not a single player at the table had even heard of it. I was gobsmacked.
Same applies with this i assume.
pocketfives table. immediately request a table change, imo
