Superuser Caught on GGPoker - "MoneyTaker69" Thread
User "MoneyTaker69" is alleged to be superusing on GG Poker.
In December, Moneytaker won at 90bb/100 on GG Poker in 8,900 hands playing 53% VPIP. Soon after, he binked a $150 Sunday MTT for $47,586 while playing an extremely volatile strategy, which aroused a lot of suspicion. GG Poker has acknowledged the situation privately and is preparing to address it, but it's important for the public to know immediately due to the significance of superusing.
The Results
The following results graph comes from Smarthand, a site that tracks online poker results. MoneyTaker won at 90bb/100 in December playing 53/17.
Typically, a player with this VPIP/PFR ratio would be in the -50bb/100 range. Even if we were impossibly generous and said he was breakeven, this run would be a statical anomaly. For a -50bb recreational? Impossible.
Here is a primedope simulation of the probability of a breakeven player having this run.
The following is a simulation of possible runs for a player with a given winrate using primedope's variance calculator. The light blue line at the top of the graph represents the "Best" run, which is the luckiest run a person could have in 1,000 trials.
This is a -50bb player playing 9000 hands. Their luckiest run is around -10 buyins. Mokeytaker won 77 buy-ins.
Additionally, MoneyTaker won a $150 GG Masters Sunday MTT, which is a big open field tournament. This makes the possibility of chip dumping or targeting specific players with a virus much less likely.
The Hands
The following hands were collected by various users as examples of likely foul play.
How is he cheating?
Based off his play, the most natural explanation is that he can see the cards. He rarely puts in money significantly behind or calls the river with the worst hand. Also, his winrate is so high that RTA could not possibly explain it.
It's unclear how he's able to see others' cards, and it's possible he's not the only one exploiting a glitch in the system. A post on 2+2 highlighted a group of suspicious accounts that played for brief stints and won for >30bb/100, which is particularly difficult on GG due to their rake structure.
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showp...
There is no clear evidence that the players highlighted in the above post are superusing, but it's not unreasonable to suspect that this could be a larger issue at scale if done by hackers that want to be less obvious than running >50% VPIP.
Hacker Group
"MoneyTaker" is a hacker group. It's unclear if this account is in any way associated with them or if it's just incidental, but worth mentioning.
What's Next?
As a community, we await GG Poker's response. I'm confident they'll do the right thing and share everything they know about this incident shortly.
Imagine that your bank account got depleted due to an internal database/software error, the bank cannot say "We know, we know about our weak spots, but we didn't care to address them. Now you don't have any money left, but it won't happen again".
This wasn't a skill group of hacker that managed to get a 0-day exploit, this was flawed by design as some experts told us in the thread, for some reason players tolerate to get cheated on
One way to potentially bring more awareness and not let this topic go under the rug is to collectively bump it on X
To try and make it trending. Pick one # and start posting, daily.
pick one #, add short question/message and also tag main players, like GG itself, everyone from sec. council, some or all embassadors and some poker news outlets. And whenever you see such post in the feed then give it a like and ideally a comment also.
not an X expert but could work.
E: could come up with couple or more templates and just copy paste those.
Some authority should demand all the data from GG to start a proper investigation.
For example, when did MoneyTaker69 register his account? Did he ever change his username?
Regarding leader boards, i'm micro stakes player so i won't be on there, but imagine you are number 6 and MoneyTaker is number 1, then i think its reasonable to correct that so that you become number 5.
I'm part of a Dutch facebook community for GG Poker and i mentioned this incident multiple times but don't get much reaction. Only one Dutch player confirmed he got back .63 cents. He's offended by this and claims that because of he got cheated he often went on tilt, losing much more money. It's hard to calculate how much but i think GG should take blame for this and refund more generously. After all, they are responsible for the safety of all players.
Last but not least i feel part of the blame is for the Dutch government, as they officially allow GG but not Party and Stars.
More than 10 years ago Party was legal in the Netherlands and i remember i made $200 in two years starting with the minimum ($10). Just slowly building bankroll. Now compare this to GG these days and i feel a great difference. From 20 to 0 3 times in a row :(
i doubt we will be getting any of that, the only thing i see is if some legends get on this case and open it up even more a bit like the Absolute bet saga
GG sweeps everything under the rug and everyone continues to play there, including many who show "outrage" on this thread. Situation normal.
ggpoker doesn't stand for goodgamepoker. Look closely at their logo. It's 666poker. What do you think the devil cares about? Making money. Nothing surprising here.
Some authority should demand all the data from GG to start a proper investigation.
For example, when did MoneyTaker69 register his account? Did he ever change his username?
Regarding leader boards, i'm micro stakes player so i won't be on there, but imagine you are number 6 and MoneyTaker is number 1, then i think its reasonable to correct that so that you become number 5.
I'm part of a Dutch facebook community for GG Poker and i mentioned this incident multiple times but don't get much reaction. O
Write a detailed report to https://kansspelautoriteit.nl/contact/. GG are obligated to report the incident themselves, but doubt that has happened, and if they have, they've surely sugarcoated it: we managed to catch this bad guy thanks to our amazing game integrity team and all is good 😃
what is their motivation for allowing screename changes ?
is it a yearly thing?
Regarding sweeping everything under the rug: They are allowing everyone to change their nickname now.
Lol @ doing this now. So everyone else who exploited the same or similar security hole can now just change their username and start over with a more careful approach? From the way GG has communicated with actual security experts who have reported their faulty data handling, theres to me a very low chance there arent other ways out there to gain an advantage from their server/client interaction, or other players who were/are doing the same as MoneyTaker.
And you just bet with how GG has handled this so poorly and treated it with so little concern, that every serious hacker group are salivating at the mouth trying to find the next exploit and get their share of the money.
If you are playing micro/low stakes there is no reason to leave unless rake is making it too hard for you. For some people GG is the only option, so they will keep playing there.
Its too hard to be a MTT grinder nowadays without using GG. I don't think the other rooms will be able to find a way to surpass them in trafic. Too much rakeback destroys the ecosystem and makes everything reg heavy, no one in the industry has the incentive to make the life of the regs easier.
GG is a solid proof that
Actually poker will very likely dry out without regs.
You seem to differentiate between regs and recs as if our motivation to play poker are completely opposite of each other. Most recs are attracted to poker for the same reasons as regulars. All of todays regs used to be recs/whales in the past. Without the beauty of it being a beatable game and the potential to make a career out of it the stream of new players will gradually cease to exist.
Are the HHs available so that people can check the other big winners? How are the HHs of Moneytaker that were posted in the forum obtained?
Lol @ doing this now. So everyone else who exploited the same or similar security hole can now just change their username and start over with a more careful approach? From the way GG has communicated with actual security experts who have reported their faulty data handling, theres to me a very low chance there arent other ways out there to gain an advantage from their server/client interaction, or other players who were/are doing the same as MoneyTaker.
And you just bet with how GG has handled th
I'm 100% sure GG knows very well who changed nickname, when and into what other name. Their historic records would be so messed up otherwise.
Never understood the nickname change...as notes will just be copied automatically and you can see the history of nicknames in the hud...so where is the + for recs?
People like options and the ability to choose their own name. Probably doesn’t go much deeper than just trying to provide a basic feature.
Write a detailed report to https://kansspelautoriteit.nl/contact/. GG are obligated to report the incident themselves, but doubt that has happened, and if they have, they've surely sugarcoated it: we managed to catch this bad guy thanks to our amazing game integrity team and all is good 😃
Most likely KSA doesn't care about stuff like this. All they care about is no rakeback, no tv comercials, a database for problem gamblers and most of all, a big cut of the rake.
Most likely KSA doesn't care about stuff like this. All they care about is no rakeback, no tv comercials, a database for problem gamblers and most of all, a big cut of the rake.
I reported an issue to KSA for another poker provider in the past. Won a ticket for a tournament where the last player would get 340,- but could not sing up last minute, called them and they gave me a ticket for 100,- as compensation. I tried to explain (by phone) that this feels unfair but there was no discussion possible.
So then i reported this to KSA and they thanked for that. Although they could help me personally they said that reports like these are important to them.
Therefore i am going to report, this hoping something can be done.
this pic councel should allow public vote from the poker community over matters, we have the power, if u dont lets just take a stand guys.
1st we want all hands public and trackable, same for rush and cash ect.
2nd then we want someone to investigate them.
As you remember, we managed to jointly ban a whole bunch of operators who had been operating since June and were farming LB on the GG.
Meanwhile, at the same time, miracles happened to other players.
siBasss (Kazakhstan)
Spoiler
Until June 2023:
After June:
Jabonaer (Kazakhstan)
Spoiler
Until June 2023:
After June:
DeadMansHand8 (Kazakhstan)
Spoiler
Until June 2023:
After June:
Nlghtbringer (Belarus)
Spoiler
Until June 2023:
After June:
Ult!matum (Russia)
Spoiler
Until June 2023:
After June:
Accounts that I also consider as
I play midstakes on GG and used smarthand for a while and I would have to agree these stats actually look very suspect, in particular the WSD and WWSF numbers combined. Somebody with very high WWSF numbers usually cannot match those numbers at showdown.
this pic councel should allow public vote from the poker community over matters, we have the power, if u dont lets just take a stand guys.
1st we want all hands public and trackable, same for rush and cash ect.
2nd then we want someone to investigate them.
Exactly, evidence should be retained with the highest urgency. All games and all hands!
I'm almost also about to just calling the police (non-urgent), as i feel this is a becoming a truly criminal & and doc/movie worthy btw!
Exactly, evidence should be retained with the highest urgency. All games and all hands!
I'm almost also about to just calling the police (non-urgent), as i feel this is a becoming a truly criminal & and doc/movie worthy btw!
Lol at calling the cops
Everyone knows cheating is rampant online. It’s a buyer beware situation.
I attach here the results of the last Sunday tournaments played (I can only check a few tournaments because there are currently series, and the tool to check the placings is not there)
gg master $150 - Moneytaker69 49k - 25 dec
ggmaster 1k$ - StrongHold 1mtt played on ggpoker 79k - 1 jan
how disgusting
So this guy hacked some tournament and like, they didn't move everyone up the payout ladder? Or did they?
If they didn't, that's seems to me to be pretty pathetic.
